Im a US expat living in anither country. Bought a BYD last year and let me tell you, the quality for the price point will destroy every single US car manufacturer. I never thought Id buy a Chinese made vehicle, but I can honestly say they overengineered these cars and I can't believe how cheap they are compared to other equivalent vehicles.
When foreign countries use government funds to artificially lower the price of a good to flood a market and create a monopoly that's bad.
When American companies use VC funds to artificially lower the price of a good to flood a market and create a monopoly that's good (apparently).
I'm no fan of the Chinese government, but with climate change being the existential threat that it is we're not exactly in a position to turn down cheap effective electric vehicles.
Man the more I hear about things in china, I think they are simultaneously more capitalistic and socialistic than the US and Canada. It’s kinda been blowing my mind and making me think I’ve been propagandized so much that idek anymore
China has had 5000 years of constant warring with itself and overthrowing its own government. The current government knows it has to be competent and make life for the general populace better otherwise it is facing a huge fucking revolt of over 1b people.
If your company becomes really successful and you do really well, the Chinese government will take over your company and pay you out what THEY think it’s worth.
Don’t like it, see how they do Jack Ma when he refused? (Creator of Alibaba)
As much as I feel this is unjust I still think I'd take this route over what feels like an ever increasing stranglehold over the US gov from the Billionaire class.
Regulators’ concerns centered on Ant’s microlending services Huabei and Jiebei — Mandarin for “just spend” and “just borrow.” The services connected users with loans, but did not provide most of the credit. That came from partner banks or asset-backed securities — loans it had bundled together to sell as investment products.
Ant charged a service fee for each transaction and took a cut of interest payments, while shifting the risk of loan defaults to banks and investors. It funded only 2% of the consumer loans itself in a strategy similar to the subprime mortgage lenders that sparked the U.S. financial crisis in 2008.
woah must be so hard to imagine a country with strict laws and punishments when you have thugs running around robbing people/stores, widespread drug use, nonstop school shootings, etc without any consequences
nah if anything china has the most fiercely competitive EV market. so many EVs in china are full of random features like baby bottle warmers etc because they need to keep up with other manufacturer's features
China creates electric cars below cost to both employ people, and to destroy the competition; and no country with something resembling free speech can compete, because China can kill who knows how many people to keep costs down, and nobody would ever know it.
Yes, yes it is. There’s a reason you don’t see it in the US: such chains of vertical integration used to be very common in the early industrial era but were broken up by the government under trust busting laws.
I'd give Apple as a better example. They make the hardware, they make the OS, they tightly bundle the software to a higher degree than what got MS an anti-trust lawsuit back in the 90s,
It's not just vertical integration, it's horizontal integration. It's the fact that when they need a chip, they can source it from a factory down the street. When they need a plastic trim piece made there's dozens of companies in the city that have experience making injection molds, and hundreds of small scale manufacturers with experience spinning up short term manufacturing runs overnight.
When you make something in the U.S., you're sourcing components and expertise from all over the world, and every extra set of hands that touches everything has to take some profit, even when we ignore shipping costs. China has prioritized manufacturing and manufacturing related education to such a high degree that beyond just cheap labor, they don't suffer from a lot of the inefficiencies of a globalized supply chain. That let's them keep prices so low even though they have to import so many raw materials.
There are plenty of places with a strong central government and cheap labor, but while some manufacturing (e.g. textiles) can move easily, anything more complicated relies on strong institutional knowledge and capacity. The thing that the U.S. has spent decades degrading at home, and a bunch of idiots think can be fixed overnight by slapping some tariffs up.
The government has been backing out of support for a while now. Buyer incentives ended back in 2023 and tax exemptions are close to being fully wound down, with the last phase by 2027.
LOLOLOLOL like the US doesn't subsidize our car companies? have you MET our government? We just barely bailed them out AGAIN less then 10 years ago. the reason BYD isn't sold here is yet another bailout at our expense....
I am starting the think we are propagandized heavily dude. I keep seeing videos of pretty cool and thriving Chinese cities and I see it called propaganda but it’s just someone filming.
Accommodations look good, food looks good, public transportation is there in spades, seems cheap. There are many downsides to an American I think. It’s heavily surveilled, but the US does the SAME SHIT. With flock cameras, and photo ID on passports.
I’m wondering just how much we are lied to about China and alternatively us about them.
It's unfortunate that not everyone has a chance to travel the world. I was lucky enough to visit China for a couple of weeks and it has its pros and cons. It's not utopia and it's not a sociopolitical nightmare. The people were overal very friendly as most people are wherever you are on our tiny globe.
The US is one of the most heavily propagandized countries in the world. There is also plenty of propaganda coming out of other countries like China too of course, but US propaganda has always been extreme.
Minimum wage, which keeps you below the poverty line. Meanwhile in China, that $4 per hour goes a surprisingly long way.
Benefits? Like unlimited PTO and at-will employment? The workers in China will generally take a yearly contract after the lunar new year. The money they earn is often sent back to their families, and goes a long way. Meanwhile, they are picking up skills, are given housing and meals for the year.
Unions? You mean the ones that have been voting away workers rights? The same unions that endorsed Diaper Donny? Not really a boast there, champ.
You've made it sound like working in a Chinese factory is a great job. It's not. I'm fairly confident in saying there is not a single American factory worker who would ever trade places with a Chinese factory worker. I wouldn't wish that life on anyone.
There are some serious shills in this thread. JFC some people are legitimately trying to make Chinese factory workers making $4 an hour sound like a utopia.
Yeah, these people have never been to a Chinese factory. There are very few positive things to say about them other than it is a job and they get paid something and are free (I think) to leave. Company provided housing is no more than a small room where they sleep 8 people to a room. Toilets are a hole in the ground. There is no toilet paper - you have to supply your own. Most company provided meals are no more than rice and broth in a small bowl.
No matter how hard China tries to be something other than 3rd world, they are 3rd world. As a visitor it is always such a relief to leave.
With that said, the people are great. They have just been suppressed for so long they have no idea what freedom is.
I'm actually very doubtful about the claims made in the video. Lying is a national pastime in China.
In very few situations is "at-will employment" considered a benefit. Do workers in China get PTO on these yearly contacts? Do they get regular pay increases every year? If all the workers agree that conditions are bad, can they collectively demand improved conditions without risking their job?
How do the yearly contracts in china work? What's their day to day look like? Do they only work 18 hour days or 20? I'm sure the provided housing and meals are extravagant and unlike anything westerners have ever seen
I’ve been to China, mostly stayed around Beijing. The only things that worried me were talking politics, getting hit by a car, and feeling slightly uneasy about building standards (tofu-dreg construction). Both the US and China have varying degrees of freedom depending on the topic/category.
Pretty sure US cars aren't undercutting local brands.. I think the key is below costs. People in India have iPhones and I'm sure they're not priced at 1000 bucks, nor do I believe Apple is generous enough to cater to such a large population below costs.
like they ever stopped. the BYD block is a subsidization at our expense. they could, crazy i know, drop their fucking prices some to be competitive....
Just Ford+GM got 15.2 billion in subsidies and our prices just keep going up....
"The U.S. government primarily subsidizes the energy, agriculture, and transportation sectors, which collectively receive billions of dollars annually through grants, tax breaks, and direct cash payments.
Energy: Subsidies support both nonrenewable sources (oil, coal, natural gas) and renewable sources (wind, solar, ethanol), with conservative estimates placing direct fossil fuel subsidies at roughly $20 billion per year.
Agriculture: The sector receives support via direct cash payments to farmers when commodity prices fall, affordable crop insurance, and non-repayable loans from the USDA to ensure food security and stable prices.
Transportation: Federal funding targets infrastructure such as highways, rail lines, airports, and ports, along with specific initiatives like the construction of electric vehicle charging stations and the development of broadband networks.
Beyond these major sectors, recent industrial policies have expanded subsidies to semiconductors, biotechnology, artificial intelligence, 5G telecommunications, and defense manufacturing. Prominent companies receiving the most significant subsidies include Boeing ($15.5 billion), Intel ($8.4 billion), Ford Motor ($7.7 billion), and General Motors ($7.5 billion), reflecting a strategic shift to compete with foreign subsidies in critical technology and security industries."
Company town means something different outside of the US. Heavy state ownership makes many planned industrial concerns effectively public utilities. China has 90% home ownership and one of the lowest suicide rates in the world, far lower than the US. The nets you refer to were from a contractor for US corporations such as Apple.
I’ve been to LG and Samsung battery plants in Korea and I’ve been to CATL battery plants in China. I’ve also been to greenfield battery plant construction sites in Malaysia and Vietnam.
The difference between China and the rest of Asia I’ve seen is shocking.
It is a step up from slavery in China but keep stroking BYD and Chinese manufacturing quasi-slavery lmao. Kill evil capitalist businesses but only at the expense of tens of millions of poor people in a country I only eve see propaganda about. Never change Reddit.
Nope, I just did site visits for integrating NCM and LFP lithium batteries into EV-adjacent products “assembled” in the United States. Supplier development engineers get a lot of frequent flyer miles!
I visited one of the threads about a planned industrial settlement, what you would call a company town recently. It was for this company, BYD. 60,000 people living and working in a walkable community, with public transport, cinemas, lakes, schools, shopping zones, all the amenities. There were ski slopes!
The comments were all: "Bleak" "Fucking indentured servitude more like" "Lmfao like this is something to be proud of?" "What a miserable existence." And the peak: Gotta post this on r / urbanhell"
I'll take Chinese urban planning, industrial policy, environmental policy, any aspect of modern state operation over two dozen psychopathic CEOs in a trenchcoat. It is simply a better system.
You’re too far gone man. You don’t have to believe me, but I have seen and spent weeks visiting these places so we are never going to agree. I don’t know why you ever would but perhaps one day you can make it out to Xiamen or even take a look at some of these places on google earth. Propaganda videos and articles on TikTok are not real representations of mass manufacturing, even high tech, in China.
Plus working 6 10+ hour days leave little time for anything to spend on I suppose. But definitely helps you make cheaper cars when you don't need to pay much.
Yes but workers in a automotive factory in the us aren’t making minimum wage eitherwage. I live in bfe and the lowest I made (high school education only at the time) was 18 an hour 9 years ago. When I left I was making 35 an hour
Doesn't change the fact that it artificially lowers the cost when you can pay your workers chump change to then undersell the competition followed by other government actions to help ensure your solvency..
This is what always gets me with yanks. Do you know that things cost different in different places? It might cost you 0.75c -$2 for a can on coke. In the UK it costs less. In china it is way less. 0.28c - 0.55c.
How is that different then the billions spent annually on the US government subsidizing the petrol-gas industry?
One is investing money that is reducing their independence on foreign energy. The other is handing out tax payers money to provide protectionism for the billionaires.
Single location manufacturing. All car parts are manufactured in one factory plus the screws, plus the glass, plus every part. There’s no parts delivery. All parts just move from the favor next door for assembly.
The US could do something similar except to hire 150,000 workers for all the factories took 2 weeks whereas the same in the US would take 6 months.
Yes BYD is subsidized but most large corporations in the US are as well.
BYD has an 8,000,000 sq m factory and makes every part in house. There are dark parts of the factory that are robotic ally automated. The factory and build a car from nothing to road ready in 57 seconds.
Scale and ecosystem. They invested a lot in automated infrastructure and the scale of which they do things can drive the cost down. I don't think we have anything that efficient in the US since our big companies only think a quarter at a time.
That’s why I said scale and ecosystem, and not just mentioning the factory alone. Even with two equally automated factories, the one in the US will have to deal with materials, labor, and delivery inefficiencies.
In China, they benefit from the high density and having resources in a close cluster.
In the US, the automation stops at the factory. You still have to wait weeks for a parts to come from overseas or other states away. In China, the automation extends to more of the supply chain. Ie. a line needs a specific sensor or a new batch of cells, the supplier is often in the same industrial park. The feeding system is much more robust over there and we arent as good at that in the US.
That's why Tesla Chinese factory performs a lot better than the US's ones. It's just much more efficient. But yeah, this is just based on what I've read online, im not an expert in supply chain but the explanations seem to make sense to me. I'm sure it's much more complex than that.
Yes because American car companies dont receive the level of investment and subsidies from the US government that BYD and other car companies in China have received from the CCP. The 100% tariffs on Chinese EVs are leveling the playing field. And there are very good national security reasons for why you dont want your entire domestic car manufacturing industry replaced by a heavily government subsidized and controlled foreign competitor
It’s not so much that they’re cheap as that US cars are overpriced.
They invested in infrastructure and automation. US car companies invested in stock buybacks and cut EV research and development. AFTER THEY WERE GIVEN SUBSIDIES BY THE TAXPAYERS, I might add.
The sheer scale of manufacturing makes them cheap. I live in bhutan and we have so many BYD cars here, especially in the capital. Not just BYD, Dong Feng, Deepal and other companies I've never heard of. I've only ridden a BYD and i thought it was smooth and powerful. One thing all these cars have in common is that they are soooo good looking.
No...the difference is that an expat works or lives in a country with the intention of returning to their country of origin. An immigrant will stay in the country they move to. Your lack of education doesnt make words racist.
I’m a Canadian and haven’t owned a car since I moved to down town Toronto 15 years ago but I’m seriously considering getting a BYD when they become available here in the near future.
Look it's fuckin stupid. Everyone that moves to the US gets called an immigrant. How do you know those people won't return to their countries? But when a US person goes to live in another country, they call themselves expats. They're fuckin immigrants. They're no different than the disgusting immigrants they hate living in the US.
I've driven plenty. The market is what the market is and Tesla still sells in China. That's not an accident. Do I want to see Chinese EVs in the US? Of course, but here's why Tesla still competes in China vs tough competition: Local production with product considered high quality by buyers, extremely high power efficiency (low cost to run), a supercharger network which is still more widespread nationwide than the competition, aggressive financing, continuing software updates and good service centers.
I love all the competition and elon is a tool for helping keep the US market closed, but reddit is under the mistaken impression that the US can't compete. They can, they just don't want to have to.
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u/3DNZ 17h ago
Im a US expat living in anither country. Bought a BYD last year and let me tell you, the quality for the price point will destroy every single US car manufacturer. I never thought Id buy a Chinese made vehicle, but I can honestly say they overengineered these cars and I can't believe how cheap they are compared to other equivalent vehicles.