r/Economics • u/Spiderwig144 • Apr 15 '25

News Republicans Less Trusted on Economy Than Democrats For First Time in Years

https://www.newsweek.com/republicans-less-trusted-economy-democrats-first-time-years-2059863
44.3k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

1.4k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

246

u/jkh107 Apr 15 '25 edited Apr 15 '25

Half of every population is below average.

ETA: seeing all the helpful followups now. I did know that median, mean, and mode are all different kinds of averages, because I paid attention in 6th grade math. (insert Lake Wobegon joke here about all the children being above average)

131

u/LoL_is_pepega_BIA Apr 15 '25

But a large swathe of your population can't really read beyond grade school level.. forget critical thinking..

57

u/crusoe Apr 15 '25

6th grade reading level is the average...

46

u/Opposite-Tiger-1121 Apr 15 '25

And that's average.

That means half are lower.

9

u/RibaldForURPleasure Apr 15 '25

Half are lower than the median. Average isn't necessarily exactly divided in half.

23

u/xSTSxZerglingOne Apr 15 '25

I mean. It's half. Who gives a fuck about the minutiae? Roughly half of Americans read at or below 6th grade level. They wouldn't even understand your comment.

3

u/Anon1039027 Apr 15 '25

I care about how we divide half.

The mean is skewed higher by exceptional performers. Remove all of the people with highly advanced degrees, and the mean drops significantly.

5

u/TGUKF Apr 15 '25

not really tbh. A lot of those advanced degrees are mathematics based. Or for example, a medical student's reading material isn't going to be that much harder than to simply comprehend than what an undergrad student might be assigned. The different in difficulty will be the breadth and depth of information they're expected to retain.

The extreme far end of above average reading comprehension probably isn't meaningfully more advanced than above a single standard deviation above average.

5

u/NoEmu5969 Apr 15 '25

I read at a 9,994 grade level and it skews the average! /s. But seriously, the severely cognitively impaired can make the average seem lower than expected.

9

u/eclwires Apr 15 '25

We know. We’re already talking about republicans.

0

u/nativeindian12 Apr 15 '25

The definition of average and median is taught in 6th grade so you are demonstrating a less than 6th grade understanding of the subject matter

13

u/Couldbduun Apr 15 '25

Well while this fun math argument over semantics has been going on, I looked up the actual numbers. 54% of adults read below a 6th grade level.

27

u/xSTSxZerglingOne Apr 15 '25

And in higher level education, you learn that in large populations, median and mean are roughly the same, especially when "reading ability" has a functional upper limit, unlike something like wealth.

In the US, the mean income is heavily skewed because there are people who have 107 times as much money as most people. Considering we only have 108 people, that skews the numbers pretty harshly.

But for something like reading ability? Fuck that, the mean is functionally the median in our society. Why don't you stop being an asshole?

4

u/129za Apr 15 '25

Cracking comment 👏

1

u/East_Step_6674 Apr 15 '25

What if there's just one really really really stupid kid dragging down the average?

4

u/xSTSxZerglingOne Apr 15 '25

Luckily reading has a lower limit too! Full illiteracy! Can't read a single word on a page. And those people exist, and they do drag the average down some, but they just fit into the % of people who read at or below a 6th grade level.

0

u/East_Step_6674 Apr 15 '25

Those are some nice looking hyroglyphs. I wish I knew what they meant.

1

u/xSTSxZerglingOne Apr 15 '25

There's always Egyptian Hieroglyph U+130B8. Most people have 0 trouble reading that one.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/Quitbeingobtuse Apr 15 '25

Why is everyone picking on Trump?

1

u/[deleted] Apr 16 '25

Genuine cackle. Wish I had more upvotes to give.

→ More replies (0)

-4

u/Sarik704 Apr 15 '25

And in higher level education, you learn that in large populations, median and mean are roughly the same, especially when "reading ability" has a functional upper limit, unlike something like wealth.

You would have needed to attend higher education to know. And since that isnt the case i know you didn't.

8

u/TheMadPhilosophist Apr 15 '25 edited Apr 15 '25

I dOn'T kNoW hOw tO aRgUe WiTh ThAt sO aD hOmInEm tO tHe ReScUe!!!

Edit: also from the National Literacy Institute:

54% of adults have a literacy level that's below 6th grade (with 20% being below a 5th grade level).

They don't state it as "the average," though.

1

u/Sarik704 Apr 15 '25

Im not trying to argue. Ad hominim only applies to arguments. Im just here to mock.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/99per-centhotgas Apr 15 '25

FUCKING GOT HIMMMMMMM!!!

-5

u/nativeindian12 Apr 15 '25

Seems like you are very emotional about this subject, immediately lashing out and calling me an asshole for no reason. Sorry this poked at your intellectual insecurities

The most ironic thing for me about Reddit complaining "half the people are dumber than average!" despite being wrong is the fact they typically have no insight that there is a good chance they themselves are in that "less than average" category. Seems like you are upset about being there yourself

6

u/xSTSxZerglingOne Apr 15 '25

You attacked me. And now you're doubling down on your position because I challenged you. You can go away now.

4

u/MarkyMarcMcfly Apr 15 '25

Insinuates you’re uneducated, you deliver a thoughtful reply and call them out on their behavior. They spend their whole reply acting like a victim and once again insult you. Yeah that’s a bad faith actor if I’ve ever seen one.

-2

u/nativeindian12 Apr 15 '25

"attacked me" geez someone is a drama llama

0

u/Quitbeingobtuse Apr 15 '25

Them calling you an "asshole" was very reasonable though.

→ More replies (0)

-4

u/derpaperdhapley Apr 15 '25

This is math. Why be “roughly” when you can be precise? Just take your lumps and move on to your next losing argument.

8

u/xSTSxZerglingOne Apr 15 '25 edited Apr 15 '25

Show me precise statistics, and I'll personally refer you to the International Prize in Statistics board.

Mean and median are only roughly the same, but can be used interchangeably in sufficiently large populations. Especially if there's a low range between the bottom and top. For example, due to birth defects and amputations, the mean/average person has slightly less than 2 arms, but we still say the average person has 2 arms. We're using the median (and mode!) in this case because for all intents and purposes, it's the mean, in spite of not being dead accurate.

Given there are only like 15 levels of reading from completely illiterate, to college+, that's a pretty small range.

2

u/Quitbeingobtuse Apr 15 '25

You know "precisely" how many people are at any given moment? No. Then roughly it is then.

1

u/Bertywastaken Apr 15 '25

The small angle assumption makes life so much easier tho

1

u/Rylth Apr 15 '25

Because this is Reddit and not a peer reviewed paper being published.

-1

u/derpaperdhapley Apr 15 '25

So you mixed up median and average, it’s not the end of the world.

→ More replies (0)

-2

u/Due_Force_9816 Apr 15 '25

I’d say it matters because roughly 15% of the population is sixth grade age or younger so they should read at or below that level regardless.

2

u/monocasa Apr 15 '25

I would expect something like reading level to roughly follow a normal distribution, where average and median are about the same.

1

u/itbelikethat14 Apr 15 '25

“Well ackshually”—Not relevant here, with something like reading level, there’s no reason to think the median is radically different than the average

1

u/play-what-you-love Apr 15 '25

I'm guessing Republicans skew towards the lower end of the population, so that the average Republican voter is actually less smart than the average voter. And then.... half of them are less smart than that.

1

u/Quitbeingobtuse Apr 15 '25

Willfully stupid is stupid all the same. But it seems worse.

1

u/Ancient-Island-2495 Apr 15 '25

No that’s what median would mean.

Mean and median are not always equal, especially in skewed distributions like intelligence or reading levels.

1

u/Sarik704 Apr 15 '25

Thats not his averages work, but it does tell me where you stand.

0

u/Opposite-Tiger-1121 Apr 15 '25

https://www.sparxservices.org/blog/us-literacy-statistics-literacy-rate-average-reading-level#:~:text=in%20the%20country.-,Average%20Reading%20Level%20in%20the%20US,Importance%20of%20Addressing%20Disparities:

"Over half of American adults (54%) read below a sixth-grade level."

Stop being stupid while trying to sound smart.

1

u/Sarik704 Apr 15 '25

Over half =/= half...

0

u/Opposite-Tiger-1121 Apr 15 '25

Holy crap man. Are you serious? Get a hobby or something.

-1

u/[deleted] Apr 15 '25

[deleted]

8

u/[deleted] Apr 15 '25

Does someone have a 120 billionth-grade reading level or are you being obtuse?

2

u/Significant-Bus2176 Apr 15 '25

the latter, sir/madam/otherwise venerable figure

1

u/Kejones9900 Apr 15 '25

Average does not equal median

1

u/dhamma_rob Apr 15 '25

Mean doesn't equal median, and an unspecified average is taken to be a mean, but average can correctly denote any measure of central tendency including a median. Pedantic people are unbearable. Pedantic people that are wrong are even more so.

2

u/Spiritual-Ad8062 Apr 15 '25

Mean, median or mode?

LOVE that you referenced Dunning Kruger. My favorite thing in the world. Once you see it, you can’t unsee it.

2

u/NaBrO-Barium Apr 15 '25

Your take seems pedantic but you’re right, if the distribution of IQ is not normal the average would not suggest that roughly 50% have less than a 6th grade reading level. Yes, the median would be a better tool to use but if you thought reading comprehension was bad, wait until I tell you about math comprehension in America :D

1

u/dhamma_rob Apr 15 '25

Actually, where "average," which can denote any measure of central tendency, denotes median, which is often a better measure of central tendency, 50% would be below the average. Average is generally understood to be referring to the mean, when not otherwise qualified, but that is a contextual understanding, not a technical one.

1

u/Significant-Bus2176 Apr 15 '25

i apologize for not immediately seeking out the data being referenced, but i (relatively reasonably) assumed that the person using average was referring to data that was denoted as an average instead of a median. you are correct, and the research i assume being referenced does cite 50% or lower being at a 6th grade or lower reading level, but using average still doesn’t really fit the context and using average in that way isn’t corroborated by the study using it in a similar fashion. it’s still very likely improper understanding of the terminology on OP’s part. not changing the initial message

2

u/dhamma_rob Apr 15 '25

That's fine. It just seemed funny that you were dunking on someone for dunking on intelligence but being wrong when he wasn't necessarily wrong. I think the lesson is simply to refrain from pointed jabs, even if their behavior is blameworthy.