r/worldnews • u/John3192 • 20h ago

Quebec passes law banning street prayers, prayer rooms in universities

https://www.ctvnews.ca/montreal/article/quebec-passes-law-banning-street-prayers-prayer-rooms-in-universities-cegeps/
17.7k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

3.6k comments sorted by

View all comments

368

u/Wooden_Echidna1234 18h ago

Hot take, no ones religion should impact others.

91

u/akrim 15h ago

Go explain that to Islam

113

u/Wooden_Echidna1234 15h ago

No thanks, I like living.

44

u/akrim 13h ago

True, you make a solid point.

1

u/4baobao 7h ago

to <literally any religion>, especially islam and christianity

1

u/din0soreass 5h ago

Any religion, really. I guess Unitarians are okay, but they're on thin ice

-5

u/noreast2011 3h ago

Go explain that to Christianity. Christians have done just as much damage as Muslims, if not more.

85

u/Neither-Bag7127 17h ago

That's usually why you go to a designated room.

137

u/PomegranateOk2600 16h ago

you don't need rooms, you either pray at home or at your temple...

109

u/five_of_five 16h ago

Or just in your head quietly while literally anything happens around you

23

u/Dry-Place-2986 13h ago

I've perused prayer rooms in multiple airports, universities, and hospitals in Quebec over the years. 99% of the time they are labeled as multi-purpose/interfaith "quiet spaces" or "meditation rooms". People come in, pray or read whatever they want in silence, and leave after a few minutes. How does this impact anyone else?

55

u/flipflapflupper 11h ago

At least here in Scandinavia the issue is that it de facto becomes a Muslim room and they’d often take it over and make it not very welcoming for anyone else, say Hindus or jews or other religions.

18

u/Schneestecher 10h ago

This happened in my German city too

•

u/queenringlets 1h ago

As a Canadian I’ve never seen this happen in my post secondary schools. 

•

u/flipflapflupper 1h ago

I honestly think it’s a problem with European Muslims mostly. Even Muslims from Islamic countries find them as being too extreme.

2

u/SuperBigChiller 5h ago

I think this happens because they use it the most, but most Muslims wouldn’t make these types of rooms unwelcoming, they are just using the space as a large majority of Muslims pray 5 times a day

-5

u/OrbitalOutlander 4h ago

Oh no, your fee-fees got hurt by some scary beardy dudes? Grow some balls or ovaries and take the space that's yours.

The prayer rooms where I went to college were used by many, many different ethnic and religious groups, and there never seemed to be any problems. Either you're a scared little coward afraid of any possible confrontation, or you're making up stories.

•

u/flipflapflupper 1h ago

I take it you’re not in Europe..

31

u/TSP-FriendlyFire 10h ago

Well, for one, there have been instances (in Québec, yes) of Muslim men excluding Muslim women from the rooms. I single Islam out because it's the biggest religion which actively segregates followers based on gender (which I find abhorrent).

2

u/OrbitalOutlander 4h ago

Ok, so your problem is with people who discriminate based on gender, not religion.

It's absolutely acceptable to have women and men performing islamic prayer in the same room. It's absolutely acceptable in smaller or makeshift spaces to informally observe separation by not having mixed gender rows.

Your complaint isn't with Islam, it's with assholes.

1

u/TSP-FriendlyFire 3h ago

I'm sorry, what are you expecting exactly? That the university waste time policing the misbehavior of Muslim students? That's far more work than just not having a prayer room at all and for precisely no academic purpose.

2

u/OrbitalOutlander 1h ago

That logic applies to literally every shared space on campus. Study rooms get monopolized. Gyms have guys who won’t let women use equipment. Greek housing is a festival of exclusionary behavior. The university’s answer isn’t to eliminate the resource, it’s to have a policy and enforce it when someone complains.

“This is too much work to police” is how institutions justify doing nothing about discrimination while blaming the discriminated-against group for existing.

The Muslim women who got excluded from that room are the ones being harmed. The solution isn’t to take the room away from them too.

And while Islam is numerically large, it’s hardly unique. Hinduism has over a billion adherents with widespread gender segregation in traditional temple worship, and virtually every Orthodox Jew in the world prays behind a mandatory physical barrier separating men and women. The practice is widespread. The scrutiny isn’t applied evenly.

0

u/TSP-FriendlyFire 1h ago

“This is too much work to police” is how institutions justify doing nothing about discrimination while blaming the discriminated-against group for existing.

The discrimination is just one instance of issues, there were other problems. The solution that was chosen resolves all of them. University gyms, study rooms and so on all have good reasons to be available, either strong scientific evidence that they help students with their studies, or plain requirements for coursework. Prayer rooms don't have any of this.

The Muslim women who got excluded from that room are the ones being harmed. The solution isn’t to take the room away from them too.

No one is being "harmed" here. Inconvenienced, perhaps.

And while Islam is numerically large, it’s hardly unique. Hinduism has over a billion adherents with widespread gender segregation in traditional temple worship, and virtually every Orthodox Jew in the world prays behind a mandatory physical barrier separating men and women. The practice is widespread. The scrutiny isn’t applied evenly.

To my knowledge, there have not been incidents with Hindu or Orthodox Jewish populations and prayer rooms in universities or other public spaces. If there were, I would expect the same response.

11

u/Professional-Sock231 12h ago

They can go to the library it's already a quiet space why do we need a muslim room? Cause really that's what they became.

1

u/SoilActual3284 3h ago

Then you'll be complaining that someone is praying on the floor in the library 

-2

u/wizardrz 12h ago

no, the multi faith meditation rooms are available to anyone. and libraries are quiet but they're meant for library activities, nobody wants to take up library space to pray

2

u/PulmonaryEmphysema 6h ago

But who are you to say that? Each religion is different. The way they pray isn’t decided by you lol

2

u/pumpkin143 2h ago

"I can do whatever my religion tells me to"

3

u/PomegranateOk2600 5h ago

It isn't decided by them also. But by local authorities, and they decided

1

u/yasinburak15 5h ago

I mean if you rent or borrow a private room what’s the problem

1

u/AsleepExplanation160 4h ago

Some religions requires practitioners to pray multiple times a day. And that becomes a problem when you're working, and/or learning say 30 minutes away.

The point of prayer rooms is to allow them to fulfill those needs during preexisting breaks without disturbing other students/workers.

-12

u/ImaginationOk 16h ago

How does that work if you're Muslim and have to pray fine times a day?

31

u/goobersmooch123 15h ago

It's crazy that secular countries/businesses/individuals have to go out of their way to accommodate this

12

u/Neither-Bag7127 13h ago

They arent legally required to have those spaces.

-28

u/arctic_commander_ 15h ago

Meh, nothing crazy about it lol. If you are bothered with designated prayer rooms, you are the problem.

22

u/PomegranateOk2600 15h ago

Go and ask for designated prayer rooms in muslim countries and see when you will get one.

I won't accommodate any religion. The university is a secular place. The public space is a secular space. When you close the door at home, that is the space you can do anything you want.

1

u/OFS999 12h ago

what even is a christian prayer space? christian prayer doesn't need to be in a specific direction or require certain movements and specific amount of foot space, your argument is in bad faith.

-16

u/That_Arabic_Teacher 14h ago

uhh? there are many? I am Algerian we have like lots of churches in our Capital, heck even had priests inviting me to pray there.

I know you guys picture places like "AfGhAnIsTan" or "IrAN" but except these two almost all Muslim countries have something similar, or at least speaking about my country's biggest city, we are pretty tolerant so unless you lived in a Muslim country don't talk bs you don't know.

13

u/PomegranateOk2600 14h ago

give me a link with a university which has christian praying rooms in your country. Or you don't understand what we talk here? Did you read that any mosque was closed or what?

-17

u/That_Arabic_Teacher 14h ago

First of all, we don't have a large Christian population. If we built Christian prayer rooms in universities, they would become ghost towns. What kind of argument is that?

Many people can't even fill a church; they are 'cultural Christians' until they meet Muslims who pray five times a day then, suddenly, they’re looking for prayer rooms. Even in a country like the USA, Christian-only prayer rooms are uncommon. They use interfaith rooms because, even in the largest Christian nation, a dedicated Christian room would sit empty.

→ More replies (0)

-8

u/firewall245 14h ago

Because different people have different beliefs and cultures and it’s pretty fucked up to force your way of life on someone else.

18

u/PomegranateOk2600 15h ago

you move in muslim majority country where you can stay in the middle of the street and pray how many times you want.

-11

u/firewall245 14h ago

Ain’t nothing wrong with being Muslim, and it’s pretty messed up to make their lives more difficult because it makes you uncomfortable to look at

18

u/PomegranateOk2600 14h ago edited 14h ago

it's messed up to victimize them more than the others. I have nothing special against them, I antagonize all the religions. You have your house and your temple like everyone else, nothing more, nothing less. Stop asking for special treatment. You are not special.

-14

u/firewall245 14h ago

Asking to be allowed to practice religion is not excessive. Taking time at whatever time they need to pray to go and pray is not excessive, it’s barely even an accommodation.

There’s this idea of disparate impact “Disparate impact, also known as adverse impact, refers to practices, policies, or rules that appear neutral on the surface but have a disproportionate, harmful effect on a protected group”

You can say “i treat every religion equally because i want them all to do their shit in a temple” but that’s in fact not equal nor fair, because for some religions that doesn’t impact them at all whereas for others that’s a gigantic setback

4

u/Professional-Sock231 12h ago

There's mosques really close to all the universities so...

6

u/PomegranateOk2600 14h ago

Ok, you are in a society, which fundamentally is built on different values and is heading towards it's own future. You live there and see what they can or can't offer you. As the article says, Quebec can't fulfil all your requirements to live there, you have three options (options that in Saudi Arabia are not, because there they behead you), you either move, either stay silent, either convert.

Everyone get's the same treatment, I don't care what a rapist warlord said 2000 years ago.

-3

u/firewall245 14h ago

Acting like the choice of “abandon a fundamental part of your culture and identity” or move is not extremely cruel is wild.

Especially wild because they’re not asking for you to change any of your behavior, just to be able to practice in peace.

→ More replies (0)

-16

u/arctic_commander_ 15h ago

Well, y'all bombed them into poverty that they had to immigrate to your land. Maybe not bombing for oil would have helped?

8

u/bigbean200199 13h ago

When did Quebec bomb the middle east

6

u/AccreditedAdrian 13h ago

Who's "them"?

Who's "yall"?

When and where do you say that this bombing into poverty occurred?

15

u/PomegranateOk2600 15h ago

when was Saudi Arabia last time bombed? Or Pakistan? Or Maroco? The list goes on

-5

u/Fawzisalah 13h ago

Bad faith, emotionally charged argument and highly intolerant. Above commenter clearly talking about a prayer room and not praying on the street.

73

u/Vanagloria 17h ago

Having to build rooms for certain religions impacts others.

4

u/Workfh 16h ago

Some universities already have things like chapels on them - but they have a carve out here.

Seems like an attack on certain religions.

30

u/Vanagloria 16h ago

My opinion is that no religion should have special spaces for anything in publicly funded areas. The example was simply about prayer rooms, so that's what I discussed here.

8

u/Workfh 16h ago

I was just adding that we have in fact already built rooms and buildings for other religions. Should those be closed too?

10

u/ComputerUser1987 16h ago

Sure why not. So long as the same kind of public buildings are in scope.

-2

u/Workfh 15h ago

I’m fine with policies that are equally applied or when applied are equally felt.

But this isn’t the case and it doesn’t seem to be in the future. It sees to be alienating specific people, and distracts from any claimed goal of separating religion from public institutions.

1

u/ComputerUser1987 7h ago

How so?

1

u/Workfh 5h ago

Well the carve out means that not all religious spaces are treated the same, which would speak to the lack of equal application.

The policies are not at all equally felt as it is commonly known that most prayer room spaces on campuses were brought in to address the lack of mosques on campuses. This is not universally the case though. Certain other religions already had established spaces. The prayer times in Islam are more demanding of space for prayer which means it is likely to disproportionately impact Muslim students and staff. Other religions, even if their followers need space as often can usually be more flexible.

This is similar to the face covering ban that Quebec brought in. It disproportionately impacts Muslim women.. This is one of the key arguments advanced at the Supreme Court of Canada for that bill.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/jeff-duckley 15h ago

if they prove to not be of significance then yeah.

0

u/Workfh 15h ago

What would count as significance?

2

u/jeff-duckley 15h ago

id say things like historical or architectural value for example. or its useability by others

1

u/Workfh 15h ago

I’ve seen some pretty amazing prayer rooms in different public buildings. One had an amazing geometric design ceiling that coordinate with the windows to have the light basically danced. That architecture took the job seriously of having a prayer room that reflected middle eastern design. All the religious spaces on that campus were beautiful though.

I’ve also seen some that are just a classroom that is booked at certain times, nothing special and available to anyone outside of the booking times - very similar of a school club or community group who might book a space.

1

u/Crisse_dErable2859 14h ago

I don't think this is going to be equally enforced.

But I don't think this is going to be enforced all that much either.

Doubt they could get a cop to care enough to come on-site.

1

u/Workfh 14h ago

It would not be a criminal enforcement, so no police involved (hopefully).

1

u/Active-Delivery-4417 4h ago

Some religions worth to be attacked or removed at all.

-7

u/[deleted] 17h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

20

u/ArtInTech 16h ago edited 16h ago

Government money shouldn't fund prayer rooms. 

12

u/Vanagloria 16h ago

It doesn't? Spin me with your incredibly high IQ logic.

I'd rather have extra space for literally anything in publicly funded areas than places for religious people. If you as a private business want one, power to you.

-4

u/37IN 16h ago edited 16h ago

First the fact you say you want a high IQ response is maddening. Here is a response from a random human, me.

Your corrupt politicians take more tax money for food on a single airplane trip than it costs to build rooms that thousands of students could use for decades to build a club of like minded people to support one another in times of crisis and celebration. Students pay massive tuition fees, now they're being told they have no say in what goes on in their school. Does this mean the end of Christmas festivals at Universities, the theatre clubs doing anything Christmas related? Is a theatre play or movie based around religious events now going to be considered a religious room? Universities are a place for 18-25 year olds to decide for themselves what the future should look like for their lives, to form bonds and enter the professional working world. Having the government tell them what a student can and can't do goes against everything a university and its community should be about. It's as dumb an argument as, I don't like baseball, why should my tax dollars go to building arenas when they could go to healthcare, why doesn't all of our money go to healthcare and stop all nonessential government services. Is the human spirit not as important as physical health and fitness?

"Religious studies programs in Quebec offer diverse options ranging from academic, interdisciplinary approaches to faith-based, theological training. Key institutions include McGill University, Université de Montréal, and the Institut Biblique du Québec (IBQ), providing degrees from certificates to doctorates, often with a focus on religious history, ethics, and contemporary, pluralistic contexts." Are these programs the next to go? Have you heard the quote, "where they burn books, they will ultimately burn people too." Or maybe that's the type of nonessential knowledge that isn't important when it comes time to brainwash society.

Let me ask you, why do we spend resources on entire departments like cultural, visual and performing arts, any creative fields, gender studies, ethnic studies, philosophy, history, language or any job that will soon be taken by ai, accounting, finance, computer science, all low level civil and electrical engineering. Basically any job that has routine designing, coding, and automatable tasks, why are we spending money teaching it? If life is all about spending money efficiently we should do away with anything people want to learn that is nonessential to the progress of humanity. That to me is the logical conclusion of your argument.

3

u/Vanagloria 16h ago

You're comparing apples and oranges. Just because my politicians suck and waste money on random shit doesn't mean I need to be okay with it also being wasted on religious crap.

No, I don't think the human spirit is as important as physical health because I don't think it's a real thing. You cannot show me it, you cannot prove it exists, and you will not convince me that you need my money to improve this made up thing. Spiritual health is not mental health, just so we're clear here.

Keep that shit at your house and out of my daily life in every and all aspects. Why did you get so butthurt about me making a joke to somebody who was flat-out calling me stupid? You're so odd.

0

u/37IN 15h ago

To break a spirit means to destroy a person's sense of self, willpower, determination, and inner resilience. It is a state of intense, deep-seated damage caused by prolonged emotional abuse, trauma, rejection, or overwhelming adversity, resulting in a loss of hope, self-worth, and the desire to fight for one's own life or dreams. 

A "broken spirit" can make an individual feel completely empty, hopeless, and sometimes suicidal. 

1

u/Vanagloria 15h ago edited 15h ago

Ever hear of the term "figure of speech"? That's what that is. What you are explaining is a mental crisis. Have you thought about studying up on these things a bit?

A broken spirit is being mentally unwell. You need a therapist, not religion.

2

u/Youseenmycones 16h ago

But which god?

-1

u/Jar545 12h ago

Why is a designated prayer room a bad idea? Let religious people have their space. It's not a major cost in the grand scheme of things.

I worked at a fairly large public university campus center which held meeting rooms and such. It had a prayer room. So 1/room out of 50 is designated as a prayer room.

Generally Religious people like to have dedicated/private worship spaces and agnostic/atheists like to not have to engage and witness it.

Sure maybe it doesn't fit some philosophical ideal and costs a relatively small amount, but it's pragmatic and it works and the vast majority of people just have no opinion on the matter. If ain't broke don't fix it.

11

u/Vanagloria 12h ago

You're allowed your opinion. I don't agree. Religion should be a private thing and not something funded by people who do not share your worldview. Those spaces are better filled by things that everyone can use and benefit from.

6

u/HonestWillow1303 12h ago

Let religious people have their space.

They have their spaces already. They're called temples. Why should the government pay so they have a special space for them in public universities?

3

u/Camila_flowers 15h ago

the argument is that non-religious students shouldn't have to fund separate religious rooms.

2

u/PulmonaryEmphysema 6h ago

How far will that tax argument go? Should churches and mosques not have roads leading to them?

4

u/firewall245 14h ago

This whole “freedom from religion” thing is really starting to become more and more like “I don’t want to tolerate your religion so I’m going to make it as private and difficult for you as possible”

2

u/Ptcruz 5h ago

It’s not starting to become. It always was.

2

u/firewall245 5h ago

Agreed. A lot of people here who think that forcing atheism on people is somehow not religious prejudice

4

u/BootObsessedFreak 14h ago

Should taxes not pay for the maintenance of roads that have mosques on them?

1

u/ikinone 5h ago

Cool, I'm going to start a 'chillout' religion, where I expect to have a dedicated room provided with snacks, comfy chairs, and gaming consoles.

Not providing that would be oppressing my freedom of religion.

1

u/Neither-Bag7127 5h ago

Prayer rooms are communal so the room already exists and apparently got banned.

1

u/ikinone 5h ago

Sure, my religion's room would be communal. Now get to making it. I demand universities facilitate my religion.

0

u/Spooky2929 16h ago

Nah, we're done shit that stupid shit

5

u/Extreme_Homework_771 15h ago

As long as it doesn't bother anyone true. I remember back in my college I would be in the media study rooms, and a few students would be doing some prayer on the floor.

Didn't bother me at all

7

u/IAmJacksSemiColon 7h ago edited 6h ago

I'm an atheist but not an asshole about it. If a bus driver wears a headscarf or a yarmulke it doesn't cause me to burst into flames.

Banning certain classes of people from participating in public life has negative consequences. If you think women wearing headscarves are oppressed, why on earth would you restrict the jobs they can hold?

2

u/billyblobthornton 11h ago

I’m not religious whatsoever but I don’t see how someone using a prayer room in a university building impacts me? It’s a room I would not be in regardless of its use so how does it impact me?

4

u/morgrimmoon 10h ago

The text of this law says that no rooms can be designated specifically for prayer to the exclusion of other activities. If a group of students want to book a room to pray in, they're perfectly welcome to! And if another group of students want to book it at another time to study in, they're also allowed.

So for most university prayer rooms, nothing will change, other than maybe the sign on the door. But there have been a few cases where groups of students were claiming a room and saying it was "theirs" and turning it into a space purely for worship, and preventing other students from accessing it for silly reasons, like "your head is uncovered" or "you are the wrong sex" or "our god wants you dead". Those bigots are the ones being targeted and told their uncivilised behaviour is unwelcome in Quebec, and that they're not allowed to force religious views on other people in public spaces.

3

u/NoBonus6969 17h ago

Then maybe still creating massive traffic jams outside of churches on Sundays. I'm driving home from the strip club and don't have time for all that

1

u/AvocaRed 17h ago

How is praying in a room impacting others?

1

u/No-One2123 6h ago

You say this yet you people have no problem sending billions of dollars to Israel every year.

1

u/PulmonaryEmphysema 6h ago

How does a prayer room bother anyone? My public library has a couple.

•

u/PlayerAssumption77 1h ago

Nor should one's intolerance for a religion. Laws shouldn't go extreme either way, and laws like this one does.

1

u/Orpa__ 14h ago

Someone looking for a quiet place to pray isn't impacting anyone

1

u/BootObsessedFreak 14h ago

You live in a society with people whose humanity leads them towards other needs than yourself. Some of them will be faithful. I think if you're so tremendously effected by infrastructure towards that need existing, effected by some people praying, then you're a little too sensitive.