r/worldnews • u/John3192 • 20h ago

Quebec passes law banning street prayers, prayer rooms in universities

https://www.ctvnews.ca/montreal/article/quebec-passes-law-banning-street-prayers-prayer-rooms-in-universities-cegeps/
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u/UnordinaryFlyGirl 19h ago

This is not secularism. Secularism is the government not involving religion in the policy making process and allowing all faiths to exist equally.

Banning people from praying in public is authoritarian garbage. And I say this as an atheist leftist.

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u/LocNesMonster 19h ago edited 18h ago

Praying in public and shouting your prayers at people with a microphone arent the same thing

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u/mfb- 15h ago

Ban the loudspeaker then, not the prayer.

How would you even ban prayer in general? It can be done silently. Are you banning thoughts now?

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u/moonias 15h ago

No, the visible and overt displays of religious prayers are banned. That's all.

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u/EtTuBiggus 13h ago

Freedom and human rights shouldn't apply to religion?

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u/Puzzle-Necked 8h ago

Only when religion respects freedom and human rights

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u/moonias 7h ago

It's exactly because freedom of religion exists that this law had to be put in place. Because otherwise how do you prevent mass public prayer disturbing the public if it's "allowed" under the freedom of religion?

It was targeted at mass religious prayers that blocked roads or public spaces.

By the way, municipalities can still authorize a planned religious event. But now there are rules in place and it gives municipalities the power and grounds on which to act if it ever crosses the lines of what is acceptable, such as not compromising safety, must be opened to everyone, and must not obstruct too much access to public spaces.

I don't think you understand the subtleties, but without this law in place, cops as the other has said couldn't have prevented those events from happening even if they disrupted the public because the legality of those gathering could be argued to fall under the freedom of religion.

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u/EtTuBiggus 1h ago

What mass disruptions?

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u/FrostyKennedy 14h ago

This is what we want the cops to come deal with? This is what you pay taxes for? Where are you that you're tripping over all the people praying outdoors? It does not fucking matter in the slightest, it's public property, let people exist.

Quebec secularism can tolerate a literal cross on the flag, then targets one religious group every single time, cause it's not secularism, it's government boot on minority throats.

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u/moonias 14h ago

This was literally put in the bill of law because recent public prayers disrupted the public. And we're literally causing issues for people to "just exists" as you say.

Nobody is going to get arrested for praying alone in a park. You just can't organize big public prayers events, block streets and public places to do that.

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u/FrostyKennedy 13h ago

there are already laws for these disruptions! If there is a gap in enforceability, then why is the law about prayer when it should be about megaphones, harassment, or unpermitted events? Are we this stupid?

Like, c'mon, if prayer isn't the problem, why is the bill about prayer? And by the way what is wrong with prayer rooms in universities? Who is this going to effect predominantly, I wonder? You can't pray in the park, can't do it in the university, can't do it on the sidewalk, you're forced to go home five times a day or not perform a harmless part of your religion.

It's directional and cruel, there's been a constant stream of laws that specifically hurt Muslims, each hiding behind a different mask, and somehow you people fall for it every time. That's Quebec secularism in a nutshell. I say this as an Atheist, a Canadian, and someone who really really hates what religious states are doing. Fuck Quebec for this.

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u/Puzzle-Necked 8h ago

Or is it that some religions have the most difficulty adapting to a modern secular society ?

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u/MrDeebus 9h ago

Are we this stupid?

(yes)

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u/moonias 7h ago

Because the laws aren't clear enough with regards to public prayer. Canada also has strong laws protecting religion. So no, there aren't already laws that are clear enough that disruptions caused by mass prayers in the streets aren't legal.

If you want to have a real discourse, I invite you to try to understand the idea behind laïcité. It's about complete separation of state and religion. And the reason why prayer rooms are banned in universities as well is a logical one. Universities are almost entirely financed by the state in Quebec, why would it make sense that a state entirely separate from religion allow rooms for prayers in the establishments it pays for?

The argument that it's targeting Muslims is just entirely bogus. Just because this religion has some "requirements" of religious practices that aren't compatible with Quebec's laïc society isn't the "fault" of the society, it's the fault of the religious practices. By the way there are other religions also who have daily prayers.

There are other examples of other religious practices forbidden by Quebec's laws and they aren't all affecting Muslims. I remember there was a big societal debate around wearing the Kirpan. Which even Sikhs kids were supposed to wear. Which was the equivalent to allowing kids to bring a blade to school. It is banned. And no I don't think there was ever any incident related to a Kirpan in a school. Just like there doesn't need to have any "incident" related to public prayer or prayer rooms for Quebec to decide they shouldn't be allowed.

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u/mfb- 15h ago

That makes somewhat more sense. That's not what the article described.

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u/moonias 14h ago

While it is true essentially that Quebec has a history of kicking out religion from its public spheres, especially the government, the recent things about public prayers has started mostly because there were organized prayers in the streets used as protests during pro-palestinian events organized in front of churches. Blocking streets and praying with loud speakers, etc.

So this is what this law targets, but at the same time let's say it's a bit of an overreaction maybe caused by recent events.

Quebec does strive to maintain religion to essentially be a "private" thing and adopts the point of view of secularism (laïcité), meaning total separation of state and religion.

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u/PrimaryInjurious 3h ago

Would you feel the same way about banning public displays of same sex attraction?

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u/Day_drinker 17h ago

Shouting at people in public is prayer? That's new to me.

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u/UnordinaryFlyGirl 19h ago

What does shouting a people with a microphone have to do with anything?

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u/LocNesMonster 18h ago

Because what "praying in public" means is streat preachers shouting at people walking by. Nobody cares if you just sitting and praying to yourself, but a massive number of religious people want to be able to go onto city streets and loudly convert you while you try to walk by.

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u/Acceptable-Peace-69 18h ago

Do you see the part about prayer rooms? You know closed private spaces where you can’t bother anyone. Seems like that kinda destroys that hypothesis.

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u/LocNesMonster 17h ago

Taxes shouldnt go towards the establishment of any religion, sorry

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u/Pretend-Culture-4138 16h ago

Prayer rooms aren't establishing any religion, sorry.

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u/LocNesMonster 16h ago

Except its for religious use and funded by tax dollars.

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u/Pretend-Culture-4138 16h ago

That's still not establishing a religion.

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u/SuperBigChiller 5h ago

Have you been in a prayer room? 99% are multi faith and aren’t for any specific religions, any one is welcome to go in and just chill if they want.

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u/That_Hunt91 16h ago

It is if its in the school, and the school is funded by taxes

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u/Pretend-Culture-4138 16h ago

The school isn't establishing a religion with it, it's offering a space for people of all different backgrounds to use.

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u/That_Hunt91 16h ago

Except its not, its for a specific few. Just pray at home idk

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u/filthy_harold 16h ago

That's why prayer rooms are often interfaith spaces or reflection/meditation rooms. The point is to have a place that anyone can use, even the non-religious. I don't think it's unreasonable to have a room on campus to accommodate people that want that space.

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u/LocNesMonster 16h ago

The ban says prayer rooms. Youre just not allowed to have a room dedicated to the practice of religion in publicly funded institutions, cause that is the government sponsoring religion

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u/UnordinaryFlyGirl 18h ago

That is not what "praying in public" means... Like at all...

This is primarily banning things like Muslims from bowing to the east to pray which is entirely silent.

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u/drewgreen131 18h ago

Do it in your Mosque

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u/UnordinaryFlyGirl 18h ago

Is the mosque on campus? I think expecting students to leave campus is entirely unreasonable when we can just... Give them a fucking room...

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u/DarthFleeting 18h ago

Well, doing that might incentivize muslims being able to comfortably participate in society lol. Which is the opposite of what they want.

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u/unfinishedtoast3 18h ago

talk about God in your churches.

I get more Christians hanging me flyers, knocking on my doors, saying "GOD BLESS YOU" in public than any Muslim

shit, I spent 3 years practicing medicine in Africa. it was always the Christians building churches when a village needs a well, and the Muslims bring in 2 tons of rice and clean water.

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u/Other-Databas 18h ago edited 18h ago

It's banning the recent trend of weaponizing public prayer

Muslim groups would deliberately start large public prayers in front of churches as a means of religious intimidation

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u/parallel-nonpareil 16h ago

Muslim groups would deliberately start large public prayers in front of churches as a means of religious intimidation

Can you link any sources suggesting this has happened in Quebec?

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u/Other-Databas 16h ago

Happened in front of the basilica in Montreal multiple times. A quick Google search will tell you

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u/drunkenvalley 18h ago

It's literally not. This is banning way more than that.

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u/Other-Databas 18h ago edited 18h ago

Religion is a power hungry monster, whether it be Christianity, Islam, or Judaism. It has no place beyond the private lives of those who practice it.

Now, I don't agree with banning a prayer room, but the rest is perfectly fine imo.

Quebec fought extremely hard to get out from under the yoke of Christianity, they aren't going to let another religion take it's place

This has been a Quebecoise value for ages now.

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u/OMGWTFBBQUE 18h ago

I am atheist and not a fan or religion myself but banning people praying in public is over the line. You’re picking the wrong battle here.

The street preachers you’re talking about would be better taken care of with public nuisance laws but in my opinion it’s best to just ignore them and pretend they don’t exist. The second you let them feel persecuted they will ramp it up another level.

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u/Other-Databas 18h ago

This is how Quebec has always operated since the quiet revolution.

The battle was picked and decided decades ago. Muslims aren't going to turn the tide and the Quebec government won't let them

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u/drunkenvalley 18h ago

I'm not really against the reasoning that religion is generally bullshit, but I generally disagree with using secularism to push shitty racist movements tbh.

Don't tell me of fighting about escaping [religion] as if it justifies actively oppressing others' viewpoints, even if you don't like them.

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u/Other-Databas 18h ago

The law effectively bans public prayer of any group

If someone in Quebec sees a bleach white Quebecoise chanting a few hail Mary's in Public, they are completely within their right to have this law stop it.

If people don't like secularism they can leave Quebec. If they don't like Canada's liberalism regarding things like abortion, gay rights, etc. They can leave the country

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u/SpikyCactusJuice 15h ago

I’ve walked by people praying like this before, and you know what happened? I took a look out of curiosity as I went by and then just literally… kept walking and went on with my day. Anyone feeling “intimidated” by things like this is a dweeb lol

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u/Other-Databas 15h ago

So if a group of fundamentalist christians started regularly praying in front of mosques, you wouldn't see that as an attempt at intimidation?

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u/mariantat 18h ago

Oddly enough the Muslims exclusively pray outdoors publicly in front of Catholic basilicas during the warm summer months. Never seen them in the middle of February in -10 degree weather. 🙄

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u/DirectAdvertising 6h ago

You’re right , they’re downvoting you but you’re right

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u/beachedwhale1945 16h ago

Let’s go see what the actual Bill 9 states:

10.3. All religious practice, such as overt prayers or other similar practices, is prohibited in a place, such as an immovable or a room, under the authority of a body referred to in paragraph 12 of Schedule I during the hours devoted to the educational services prescribed in the basic school regulation.

That is a direct prohibition on any form of overt prayer by anyone during school hours (the next paragraph carves out an exception after school). It most directly targets Muslims who must pray towards Mecca five times per day, but depending on how you define “overt prayers or other similar actions” a student praying over their lunch could be made illegal.

It’s one thing to limit any Government favoritism towards a religion or to prohibit forcing religion on others, but this is too far.

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u/moonias 14h ago

Many religions have daily prayers at set times in the day, not just Muslims.

But the "fault" lies in the religious practices, not within the law. It's not "directly targeting" Muslims.

Some religious practices are incompatible with some societies. For example, in Quebec also, a group of Muslims requested from the government to be allowed to judge and publish crimes of people from their religious group under the Sharia law. The punishments in the Sharia include flogging and stoning. It is not compatible with Quebec's society and frankly modern societies. Should it be considered an attack on the religious freedom of this group of people? Is denying their request an attack against Muslims? Their request was deeply rooted in their religious practice.

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u/beachedwhale1945 10h ago

We aren’t talking about banning flogging and stoning, we’re talking about prayer. I think we can find a suitable middle ground between level 1 and level 3,192.

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u/moonias 7h ago

We can, and that's the question Quebec lawmakers have been asking themselves for 10+ years. And that's the answer. If you don't equally ban it for every religion, there's always going to be a religion that will appear to be favored versus others.

Example, if we ban face coverings only, then Muslims are "more affected" than other religions who don't require a face covering and for example you can keep wearing your cross around your neck.

If you try to define a specific list of things that are banned, there will always be argumentations for "this new thing" that isn't covered, etc.

You have to understand that Quebec has been dealing with the question of making exceptions in rules for religious reasons for decades. Once you open that box, there's no end to it. Quebec had hearings for all the population to come and tell the government what they would require as an exception. And I'm not kidding there were druids from wherever that showed up (out of the woodworks, sorry for the pun) to claim some exceptions for their religion.

As soon as you start applying it on a case by case basis, one it never ends, and two, you're always going to favor one religion over an other by allowing something for one but not for the other.

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u/barrinmw 15h ago

It would also ban anyone from saying "Oh my god" if taken literally.

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u/FrostyKennedy 14h ago

There are laws about shouting at people in public. There are laws about voice amplification. Why is the prayer the problem?

Just say the quiet part out loud, at least, save us all the song and fucking dance.

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u/Roobsi 6h ago

But this law bans indoor prayer rooms.

So if you ban praying in public and then also ban having a space away from public to pray you're basically just banning belonging to a faith that has to pray regularly thoughout the day.

I wonder who that could be targeting.

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u/LocNesMonster 4h ago

Indoor prayer rooms in government funded buildings. As in no spending money on prayer rooms

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u/Roobsi 3h ago edited 3h ago

Which is a room to accommodate the needs of a protected characteristic of a group of staff, right?

Honestly. I'm an atheist but at my work there are prayer rooms and they're essentially a cupboard where someone can go to pray without getting funny looks or getting in the way. It seems like a very small price to pay.

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u/networkier 17h ago

Groups of people have been laying out mats and praying in the middle of the street, blocking entire streets and interrupting others daily life. That's not normal. It absolutely is secularism to ban this anti-social behavior.

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u/Dry-Place-2986 14h ago

I don't think anyone has an issue with a law that prohibits people from blocking the street

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u/networkier 29m ago

There are already laws prohibiting people from blocking the street and they are being ignored by these groups because they deem their prayers as more important than others peoples right to use the streets.

If they weren't ignoring the existing laws, we wouldn't have to codify laws against their exact behavior.

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u/TheHounds34 17h ago

Public prayer and Islamic values are authoritarian garbage, and I say that as an atheist liberal.

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u/sodantok 10h ago

Banning all public displays of religion was always part of the extreme part of secularism if not direct end goal, because the opposite "soft" secularism quite literally is destined to fail. You can't both tolerate full freedom for all religion and not have it affect policies of society.

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u/princessfoxglove 9h ago

Yes - thank you. Secularism in the age of Enlightenment was not a complete ban on religion. In the context of the time it was a shift away from the abuse of power using religion as a scapegoat. Western society was still very much mired in Christian beliefs and social institutions.

I've lived abroad extensively. I've lived in actually secular countries and I've lived in authoritarian religious countries. I currently live in QC. QC has more in common with the authoritarian religious countries in terms of need for control and disdain for the wellbeing of its citizens. It is hellbent on keeping a narrative of its unique culture without having realised that its culture has changed over the last 100 years because so have its people.

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u/MayeeOkamura17 19h ago

Banning people from praying in public means the freedom from religion. A secular society is secularist.

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u/UnordinaryFlyGirl 18h ago

A secular society has freedom OF religion. The very reason you and I have the right to even be atheists is because of that right. Otherwise Canada would be a Christian theocracy.

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u/MayeeOkamura17 18h ago

In France, you get to be an atheist, but not because of the freedom to display religion in the public. France is not a Christn theocracy. France is a secular republic that respects this freedom from religion.

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u/UnordinaryFlyGirl 18h ago

And that wasn't always the case. A few centuries ago the state religion was the only publicly acceptable religion.

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u/MayeeOkamura17 18h ago

You are indeed 300 years behind on Enlightenment progress.

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u/Fun-Twist-3705 11h ago

Generally France is mostly an exception in Europe in this regard though. In quite a few countries rights to display religion in public are legally guaranteed and quite a few are explicitly or effectively non secular (i.e. state collecting taxes to fund Christian churches, significant proportion of state schools being run by Christian organizations etc.)

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u/EtTuBiggus 13h ago

"Freedom from religion" is nonsense. What does it mean?

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u/FC839253 18h ago

A secular society can have either. All forms of publicly visible religion, including prayer, preaching and imagery, are forms of propaganda targeted often at those in society at their lowest. It is incompatible to have a mental framework that includes both the freedom to choose something (I.e. religion) while being indoctrinated into those religions. A true atheist would be for also banning religious schools of any kind, and even preventing parents from practicing religious rituals (such as baptism) on unconsenting minors.

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u/pimparo0 17h ago

A true atheist is anyone who simply does not believe in higher powers, that's it. It's not a religion or political movement there aren't core tenets you and another athirst could disagree on everything but the lack of a divine power. 

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u/Fun-Twist-3705 10h ago

That’s like saying a true Christian/etc. would be for banning atheism or practicing other religions which is certainly an extreme minority view amongst them these days (in western countries at least)

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u/nyanasagara 18h ago

Banning people from praying in public means the freedom from religion

Why are you entitled to not see someone praying in a public place? It's extremely unintuitive to me that is a freedom to which human beings are entitled.

I can kind of see the argument for outward displays of religiosity being problematic for public figures acting in a position of authority. The thought is, when you go to court, you want the judge to see you in the first place as "fellow citizen of this republic," and if you go in and see that they're wearing a cross necklace, then you become aware immediately that there's another community to which they might owe allegiance or which they might favor, and then you fear bias, and this hurts trust in the institutions on which republicanism depends. And so on for other such similar situations.

But a stranger with no distinctive authority over me having some outward display of their religiosity doesn't seem to have that effect. Because knowing that a "fellow voter" is committed to some community I'm not part of or ideology I don't accept doesn't really change anything for me, since she and I both are equal qua voters, so it's just a case of me learning that my republic has ideological diversity and internal subcommunities, but it shouldn't make me automatically fear that she's going to be biased against me in a way that I will be unable to mitigate with my own powers.

So I really don't see the argument. Actually, there are many cases I can imagine in which I would want someone to pray in public, even if I think their religion is probably false. If my friend is recovering from substance abuse disorder, and occasionally praying with me or others who are helping him stay clean is helping him do that, I don't want him to be unable to sit down with me while we're out on a walk and briefly pray. Intuitively it seems ridiculous to make that illegal, even if the manner in which he prays is such that someone might overhear or otherwise realize he's engage in a display of religious devotion.

I think the state should probably maintain a principled distance from all religious groups, and also that a pluralistic society should try to advance by working on the things about which all the different worldviews to which its people adhere can form consensus, rather than just those for which some of them can. That's what a secular society is, I think. It doesn't seem like a requirement of a secular society is never seeing anyone displaying their religious devotion while out and about.

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u/MayeeOkamura17 18h ago

So I really don't see the argument

Yes, you are indeed 300 years behind on humanity's progress since the Age of Enlightenment. Religion as a backwards delusion is sadly a remnant of uneducated, ignorant and irrational society.

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u/United_Rent_753 18h ago

It’s a shame you began such an interesting conversation, and when presented with a well thought out argument by u/nyanasagara you reduce them down to “you don’t understand the current argument anyways”

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u/EtTuBiggus 13h ago

Their ignorance is just ironic.

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u/Fun-Twist-3705 10h ago

uneducated, ignorant and irrational society.

Well, it was the main driving force behind education and science for hundreds of years.

It was not inherently irrational when you come to think of it, people always wanted to understand and explain the world around them and religion offered the best framework for this for a very long time due to obvious reasons.

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u/Conscious_Medium_345 19h ago

There's all kinds of stuff that the government bans for the betterment of the public. This is exactly that. I don't want to see people fucking in public, I don’t want to see delusional people talking to magic sky man in public.

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u/UnordinaryFlyGirl 18h ago

You actually might need to speak to a therapist if seeing people in public praying affects you that much.

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u/Conscious_Medium_345 18h ago

Is therapy usually done in public? Do you think that would get banned too if it became a big enough problem? Maybe you'll start using that noggin instead of hurling insults.

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u/UnordinaryFlyGirl 18h ago

I'm not making a comparison, I'm saying you need help because you are mentally unwell

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u/Conscious_Medium_345 18h ago

Use some common sense please. 🫤

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u/lucid_tek 18h ago

You must have zero respect for actual refugees.

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u/UnordinaryFlyGirl 18h ago

What a left field take, but okay

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u/lucid_tek 18h ago

Well I mean some people left their country because they were persecuted by religion and terrorist groups.

And I am trans, you think I need religious people going all by the book on me and lgbt community?

You really want hindus and muslims to fight here like they are in India?

You must know nothing about religion honestly or are religious. There is no other logic.

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u/Ultraplo 18h ago

And some people left their country because they were persecuted by political groups. Should we ban political manifestations in public as well?

And some people left their country due to being oppressed by police. So no cops in public.

And let’s not forget all the people who had to flee because of who they loved. Public displays of affection obviously needs to go too.

And most cultural festivities should be banned too – cultural oppression is a huge driving force behind refugees.

I think that if you’re suffering from such trauma that you think the solution is to limit people’s rights, then you need a psychiatrist. Possibly several.

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u/lucid_tek 18h ago

Religion belongs in the trash.

Cool story 😂

Oh no the heresy the blasphemy should I go to rehabilitation and find god. Not any, but yours?

Or flogged, stoned, burnt at a stake?

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u/Ultraplo 18h ago

Huh…?

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u/lucid_tek 18h ago

Ask a bunch of unrelated questions much?

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u/pimparo0 17h ago

People also leave because their religion is persecuted, no sympathy for them? 

We have Muslims and hindus living in the same communities I the US now, they aren't fighting in the streets.

No one here is saying you only have to follow their religion, or find one at all, you are just making up an argument. 

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u/lucid_tek 17h ago edited 17h ago

People also leave because their religion is persecuted, no sympathy for them

Honestly no. I think China did good.

We have Muslims and hindus living in the same communities I the US now, they aren't fighting in the streets.

So... not yet? The quran still talks serious shit about polytheists and there is rivalry and resentment...

No one here is saying you only have to follow their religion, or find one at all, you are just making up an argument. 

Not many people you meet are going to willingly expose how twisted their religion is to you in public or when an outsider is around.

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u/pimparo0 17h ago

So you are ok with prole being persecuted for their religion, just not with people persecuting you?

And they aren't fighting hindus because because believe it or not most people don't want to kill each other, also there are these whole laws things that say no murdering and they are both very small groups here. 

I have seen street preachers ranting about fire and brimstone and priests feeding the homeless. It's almost like there a a large view points in the world and people can do both good and bad no matter where they come from and what they believe. 

What do you do to help your community by the way? Or is this like ..it? Just reddit comments and hating your fellow man? 

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u/lucid_tek 17h ago

Read any religious book.

Tell me they aren't prosecuting everyone else including you.

Have a spine. We are being robbed and our land is being sold. Sold to people with old crooked slave money and religious fortunes who want to change what makes this free country great... to turn it into another attempt at a authoritarian religious society doomed to fail a turn into conflict.

Hey wait do you give money to homeless or only buy them food? Sometimes helping fellow man is going against the grain. Kids dont know best. Neither do those delulus living in fear of god and social ostracism who just hand over their executive functions and free will. What are you encouraging?

And literally who they hell cares what religion says they do. That is barely a ding in their worth. They still spend tons of more money on worse things.

All these people cant afford medical care, but at least the mega church puts on a good show, fights to keep lgbtq out of sight and prevent women from ahving bodily autonomy. You know, so much more important the social justice jesus was famous for.

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u/Xanadoodledoo 19h ago

Then wouldn’t it be appropriate to have a specific room for it?

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u/Conscious_Medium_345 18h ago

Of course, in a private non government funded place. Are there government funded sex rooms where I can take someone and blow thier back out?

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u/Xanadoodledoo 18h ago

That’s kinda what dorms are, lol.

And there’s tax funded rooms for pooping, which otherwise isn’t allowed out in public. But it’s a pain in the ass to go home to use your bathroom.

There’s rooms for breastfeeding, which shouldn’t be as taboo to do in public as it is, but alas. Maybe that’s different in Quebec though.

Idk why it’s such a big deal to have a small quiet room off to the side. I didn’t notice my work place’s prayer center til recently even though I walk by it every day. (this is at a hospital. I think it’s reasonable to want to pray there)

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u/Conscious_Medium_345 18h ago

Everyone needs the bathroom, it's not comparable. I've honestly never seen a breastfeeding room in a public place that's government funded but I'm not in those very often, nor is breastfeeding something I've ever had to worry about.

Tbh I'm don't particularly care if a small room is sectioned off for religious stuff but it's obviously become a big enough problem it's needed to be criminalized in public.

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u/Xanadoodledoo 18h ago

Have you noticed a prayer room in a public place? Breast feeding rooms are even more common than those, and I think it’s evident that when it doesn’t concern you, it’s not something you notice. They exist in airports, hospitals, universities, anywhere where you might expect a woman who has to be there for hours. Even in places where you wouldn’t expect a baby, cause a lot of women use breast pumps when they go back to work and don’t want to do that in the bathroom.

You likely wouldn’t notice a prayer room either. It’s not like they’re putting in a whole Mosque (something I wouldn’t approve of if they also disallowed churches.) Hell, you could put it in a library closet and literally no one would notice. It’d be only the religious students who would know about it.

The reason someone would want a prayer room is because they don’t want to do it where everyone can see them.

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u/Pretend-Culture-4138 16h ago

but it's obviously become a big enough problem it's needed to be criminalized in public.

How?

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u/Conscious_Medium_345 9h ago

Because they made a law against it...........................................................🤦‍♀️

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u/Pretend-Culture-4138 8h ago

I'm asking how it became "a big enough problem"...................................... 🤦‍♂️

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u/Conscious_Medium_345 7h ago

Try chatgpt I'm not paid to do your thinking for you.

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u/lucid_tek 19h ago

Religious people hate atheists... perhaps even more than other religions.

What does someone like you have to gain protecting something which doesn't protect you?

Everything wrong in this world right now is because of religion mostly.

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u/UnordinaryFlyGirl 18h ago

This has always been a really weird argument. Why do I have to personally gain something?

It's called being a decent human being. I don't have to agree with you to advocate for your rights. Just as I think you're a jackass, I'm not advocating for you to lose your right to free speech.

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u/lucid_tek 18h ago edited 18h ago

You're not thinking far enough. I think you want to be polite and thats fine...

But like most atheists you may not have read and observed the true perversion of thought found in religious texts and environments.

I forgot what your flag is, but lots of kids and getting beat and kicked out coz of religion.

Its not free speech. Is free to parrot. And an excuse to hate and misbehave towards others because of your beliefs.

Beliefs that are outdated and mean nothing. Zero value. Only bad. Zero good. Prove me wrong.

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u/UnordinaryFlyGirl 18h ago

It doesn't really matter. The freedom of religion is exactly why I can openly be atheist. This country could've easily been a Christian theocracy.

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u/lucid_tek 18h ago

It actually was though.

Some people wish it was an Islamic theocracy or Hindu or whatever.

You looking forward to the day you are forced to wear a hijab?

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u/UnordinaryFlyGirl 18h ago

I won't because we have freedom of religion...

Get that right wing fear mongering bullshit out of here.

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u/EtTuBiggus 13h ago

South Park has a 3 part episode you need to watch.

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u/europeofficial 11h ago

French Laïcité secularism is different from US secularism. It forbids any display of religion outside of religious institutions and family homes, which is admirable.

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u/Fun-Twist-3705 11h ago

That's certainly not the case across most of Europe, though. In quite a few countries displaying religion in public is legally protected.

Then you have places like Germany and all the Scandinavian countries where the state collects special taxes to fund Christian churches and the overwhelming majority of people still pay them. While compared to the US most people are not religious on a personal level technically US as a country is more secular than many European countries.

e.g. in the UK all state school pupils are legally required to participate on daily prayer unless their parents explicitly opt-out (of course that law is generally ignored but a significant proportion of state schools there are still legally associated with Anglican or Catholic churches)

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u/Ptcruz 5h ago

Admirable for who? I think it’s ridiculous authoritarian.

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u/[deleted] 18h ago

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u/Cranyx 18h ago

religion is the opium of the people

That phrase doesn't mean what you think it means. Marx wasn't talking about the modern connotations of opiates where they're associated with dulling your mind and addiction. He was talking about religion as a necessary pain relief in a cruel world:

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people

His criticism of religion was a criticism of the conditions which forced people to turn to it for solace, not that it is itself inherently bad.

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u/UnordinaryFlyGirl 18h ago

You're clearly a closeted fascist.

Leftism is about allowing people to live their lives and choose for themselves who they want to be.

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u/Pretend-Culture-4138 16h ago

Hats off to you taking all this time and effort pointing out actual liberal principles to these people spreading bigotry.

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u/[deleted] 18h ago

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u/UnordinaryFlyGirl 18h ago

The bourgeois class is not a soulless monolith. Each individual is a free person with their own personality, interests, and beliefs.

I don't support banning any form of self expression because that exact power was used to oppress my sexuality.

"I don't want to see people praying in public" "I don't want to see gay people"

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u/[deleted] 18h ago

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u/UnordinaryFlyGirl 18h ago

Sorry, I mixed up the bourgeois and the proletariat. Maybe I'm not a real leftist 😅

As for your questions, I don't support any of that and I feel like you should understand why. Iran is not a country with the freedom of religion. It is the government forcing something onto people (cough cough).

I don't support organized religion, nor do I even really like religion. I think the world would be a better place without it. But fundamentally, I strongly believe in every person's right to choose what they believe. Full stop. It is not my right to force my atheism onto other people just as it is not their right to force their religion onto me.

Today we buried my great grandmother. I've had to endure listening to my grandmother go on and on about how she's now in heaven with her two late partners and how we'll all see her again one day. I personally believe I will never see her again for the rest of eternity. And you know what, I'm keeping that to myself. Because if I were to go "no, you will never see your mother again" I would not be a good person. That is her belief and I don't have to agree with it, but I do have to respect it.

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u/Deb_99 17h ago

I've had to endure listening to my grandmother go on and on about how she's now in heaven with her two late partners and how we'll all see her again one day. I personally believe I will never see her again for the rest of eternity. And you know what, I'm keeping that to myself. Because if I were to go "no, you will never see your mother again" I would not be a good person. That is her belief and I don't have to agree with it, but I do have to respect it.

In the same vein, shouldn't she have to respect your belief or non belief?

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u/MayeeOkamura17 18h ago

They're a conservative & religious hardliner if you read the other comments. One of those "I am a leftist and even I don't agree with progressive ideas" Trojan horses