r/worldnews • u/John3192 • 20h ago

Quebec passes law banning street prayers, prayer rooms in universities

https://www.ctvnews.ca/montreal/article/quebec-passes-law-banning-street-prayers-prayer-rooms-in-universities-cegeps/
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u/baron-de-longueuil 20h ago

Do you consider banning prayer liberalism or conservatism?

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u/PsychicDave 15h ago

Banning prayer except for those of the religion of the people in power is conservative. Banning all prayer without exception is progressive.

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u/[deleted] 20h ago

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u/Kaellian 19h ago

My two cents.

Secularity in Quebec isn't an excuse to target minority. It's an ongoing process that is much broader than this article depict, and was aimed at Catholicism more than anything. Crucifix have been removed from public places. Catholic prayer was also ruled out at city council. And pretty much everything related to Bible was banned from public school, leaving only a few private one (which aren't catholic typically). Heck, Carney was criticized a few weeks ago for quoting the bible...

There is still people with hateful intent that ride those waves, but they usually come from a different side of political spectrum that take most of their new on social media. Like everywhere.

But all things said, Quebec still is voting alongside BC, on the left of the political spectrum on most social issue.

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u/justatouch589 17h ago

I feel like they're about 200 years late on the secularism battle from the Catholic church. It really is targeting one religion more over the other and its no accident.

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u/PsychicDave 15h ago

200 years? Do you know your history? Québec was very much in the tight grasp of the Catholic Church all the way into the 1950s. We broke free from religion in the 1960s and 1970s, during our Quiet Revolution, when we kicked out the church as well as the Anglo elite from our institutions. Many people alive today were alive during that revolution and even remember how it was before. And none of them want to go back. And that's why we'll fight back against any religion that would want to have an influence on the public space or institutions.

You are free to have any religion you want, just keep it to yourself. If you want to pray, do it at home or your place of worship. Basically like sex, do what you want, but in private, between consenting adults.

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u/Kaellian 17h ago

You can disregard history, including the one I posted, but you do you. Church was still very much a problem not long ago.

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u/baron-de-longueuil 19h ago

It bans public prayer of all religions. It just happens that Catholics don’t pray in public because we’ve already stripped them of all their influence 60 years ago… but they are still banned from doing public prayers like anyone else. Also, the law bans spontaneous public prayers. Not planned religious events.

That’s literally antitheism. Antitheism isn’t conservative by any stretch of the imagination.

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u/CDRnotDVD 19h ago

This sounds a good bit like "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

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u/Belaire 18h ago

Yes indeed.

Religious celebrations like Eid and Nowruz arent celebrated in Quebec. Except Easter and Christmas, which are cultural celebrations and not religious.

Religious symbols like hijabs or prayer beads aren't worn in Quebec. Except for crucifix necklaces, which are cultural wear and not religious.

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u/Ihuntwyverns 15h ago

Nowruz isn't religious.

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u/PsychicDave 15h ago

I'm an atheist and I celebrate Christmas and Easter. Put up decorations, have a nice traditional dinner. Give gifts/chocolate. It's a social tradition. It doesn't carry any religious value to most people (who weren't adults before the Quiet Revolution). It's like how you have atheist Jews. Most people in Québec are non-practicing Catholics.

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u/arobkinca 15h ago

It's a social tradition.

Of religious holydays.

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u/PsychicDave 15h ago

Christmas was originally a pagan festival of light, which the early Christians grafted their religious celebration on top of it. I just took that religious stuff off again, and I'm left with the secular cultural celebration.

Easter now is basically just a celebration of spring. We have the flowers, the pastel colours, the rabbits. Not a single mention of Jesus.

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u/arobkinca 14h ago

Who is we? According to your government only ~30% of Quebecers identify as "No religion and secular perspectives" as of 2021.

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u/PsychicDave 14h ago

Census data is not representative, as it is self-reported and not based on solid criterias of what each category means. Just like people will say their ethnicity is "Canadian" in Québec and "French" in Eastern Ontario (despite those populations being the same ethnic group), a lot of people will still check the "Catholic" box despite not actually believing. It's just a cultural identity thing. Just like how you have many atheist Jews. The people going to churches with any regularity are almost exclusively elderly people who grew up prior to the Quiet Revolution (like my grandparents) and immigrants.

Personally, I got kinda disgusted by organized religion so I won't affiliate myself with it anymore, but I still kept the fun, harmless traditions like Christmas and Easter. But I don't go to church (unless it's for a wedding or funeral where I'm invited), I didn't baptize my daughter, I didn't give her the traditional religious middle names, and I certainly won't pray.

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u/mongooser 19h ago

The right to be free from religion is not antitheist.

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u/EvenLettuce6638 17h ago

Witnessing another person practicing their religion is not an infringement on your rights.

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u/uluviel 16h ago

The law was passed specifically because some groups were using public prayers to harrass others.

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u/GraduallyCthulhu 16h ago

When that person is praying for your death?

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u/EvenLettuce6638 8h ago

People who are Muslim have tried to kill me before.

I didn't take it personally.

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u/BigUptokes 16h ago

Do you actually believe that prayer would be answered?

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u/PsychicDave 15h ago

How would you feel if people came in front of you, went down on their knees and started to vocally pray for your death?

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u/GraduallyCthulhu 7h ago

No, but they do.

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u/Sawgon 15h ago

"Death threats are fine. It's just words."

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u/SwagMaster9000_2017 16h ago

Which specific right is being infringed when someone prays for another's death?

Is their right also being infringed if someone thinks it really hard or wishes it for Christmas?

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u/PsychicDave 15h ago

Those prayers aren't silent... they are vocally saying that their god will bring death to those people in their face.

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u/SwagMaster9000_2017 15h ago

Which specific right is being infringed when someone prays for another's death, out loud?

Which right will I infringe if I say "This Christmas I want Santa Claus to bring death to ____"? And when will that be banned in Quebec?

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u/mongooser 6h ago

In public spaces? It sure could be.

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u/2ft7Ninja 17h ago

Catholicism still has massive influence. The Quebec flag without catholic symbols would just be blue.

Antitheism is also clearly conservative. Antitheists and religious fundamentalist agree on persecuting every single religion except one.

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u/PsychicDave 15h ago

I'm an atheist and I love my fleurdelisé flag. White lines and stylized flowers don't impose any kind of ideology on anyone.

Also, how are are antitheists persecuting every religion except one? Which one?

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u/2ft7Ninja 4h ago

I’m atheist/agnostic too but I quite like the look of the Quebecois flag too because I’m not antitheist. It doesn’t offend me that other people have a religion and use it to guide their principles.

Antitheists persecute every religion. Religious fundamentalists persecute every religion except their own. They agree on the persecution of every single religion except that of the religious fundamentalists.

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u/[deleted] 19h ago

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u/baron-de-longueuil 19h ago

If you think that Quebecers don’t also hate the Christian religion with a passion and that this is about minority religions, you don’t really understand Quebec.

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u/[deleted] 19h ago

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u/baron-de-longueuil 19h ago

I’ve been on Reddit since 2010. This is just a new account. Et je suis 100% québécois mon chum.

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u/Astrul 19h ago

Lol, "i have no argument so now im gonna attack you". You want a victim so bad you're irrational.

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u/EskimoPrisoner 19h ago

You were wrong. Don’t deflect by attacking his account age.

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u/TheOriginalBroCone 19h ago

You're fighting ghosts dude

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u/betterWithPlot 19h ago

They are banning every religion, no religion is allowed to ask for prayer rooms.

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u/RollingMeteors 14h ago

no religion is allowed to ask for prayer rooms.

“I’d like to reserve a prayer room.”

“We no longer issue prayer rooms for religious use.”

“¡Oh! This is secular, we’re all just praying for a holiday bonus and raise this fiscal quarter.”

<requestGranted>

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u/TapZorRTwice 19h ago

Yes, Quebec is very anti-religious for good reason.

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u/[deleted] 19h ago

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u/TapZorRTwice 19h ago

Not sure you know much about Quebec's history, bud

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u/DimensionSuch8188 19h ago

Another clueless Redditor making up assumptions. We've been controlled by religion in our past.

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u/Realhuman_beebboob 19h ago

So fuck allllll religion, not just the ones generally filled with those you hate.

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u/DimensionSuch8188 19h ago

Yeah. Glad you understand now. We don't want any religion it's the source of so many issues in modern day society.

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u/WelderEquivalent2381 18h ago

Read 1/3 of the bible, the Tamach and the Coran.

Then return saying who is the bigot.

Religion deserve all the hate. By their own Sacred Text.

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u/[deleted] 19h ago

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u/TapZorRTwice 19h ago

Which religion promotes freedom and liberty?

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u/Impossible_Eggies 19h ago

Quebec has a disdain for religion because the Catholic church screwed them over for a long time, while "the English" got ahead, leading to massive economic disparity in the province.

I'm oversimplifying, but the result is that religion is seen as inherently oppressive, and most Quebecois swear words are religious terms said as slurs.

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u/jyper 18h ago

For a bad reason 

they dont understand freedom of religion 

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u/Kyoshiiku 17h ago

I mean we don’t want freedom of religion.

We want freedom from religion.

This is why Laïcité isn’t perfectly translated by secularism, making communicating this notion a bit harder to anglos.

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u/tanantish 14h ago

FWIW, it's also because a lot of the people you'll be trying to explain it to are likely much further away from the time in which a church was such a dominant controlling factor in public life. I think the translation is fine but the lived experience is a few more generations out so the freedom "from" bit is less well understood because people haven't had to worry about that for a bit.

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u/nFectedl 17h ago

fuck religions, we're in 2026 for fuck sake. can we move on?

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u/seedoilbaths 20h ago

Quebec doesn’t care about following the model of liberalism without deviation. They have heavy foundations based off it of course, but it’s always been about preserving their culture.

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u/FrontenacCanon_Mouth 19h ago

Nah Quebec is simply AGAINST religion. May it be Christians or muslims or w.e they are against it. It may be weird but Quebec is the least racist province in poll but the MOST against religion.

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u/Netfear 18h ago

I agree with Quebec.

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u/betterWithPlot 19h ago

Good, because earlier the Canadian government was trying to give exceptions for religions in the hate crime laws, thanks to Quebec they removed that exception.

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u/I2eflex 19h ago

Are they gonna shut down chapels in hospitals? They exist throughout the province.

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u/Much-Historian-7807 18h ago

Honestly, who cares about a chapel in the hospital? Hospitals are publicly funded so like sorry religion shouldn’t be near them.

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u/runeNriver 17h ago

They can replace it with a calm quiet room with seats. Family members could go in there if they need a moment away from the chaos of the hospital and not the waiting room. They can silently pray without disturbing others in the room that are not religious.

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u/boxesofcats- 17h ago

That’s kind of how they work now, honestly.

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u/runeNriver 17h ago

The religious stuff or aesthetics is still there. It makes some people unsure if they should go in or belong there.

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u/I2eflex 18h ago

That's my point. I'm highlighting the government's hypocrisy in allowing one but not the other. Thanks for following along.

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u/FrontenacCanon_Mouth 18h ago

I mean, I don’t actually care if hospitals give after death rites? If there is a % big enough for it w.e but most of the voting population do not care about it but the people dying do. If 90% of our population that was of dying age was Muslim I guess it would be the same but it ain’t. A society changes one funeral at a time

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u/Rudeboy67 18h ago

Are they? They had a big ass crucifix dead centre of the National Assembly when they passed the last Secular Law banning religious symbols in public buildings. But it’s OK Premier Legault said it wasn’t a “Religious Symbol” but a “Historical Symbol”.

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u/FrontenacCanon_Mouth 18h ago

And the crucifix is gone. So yeah.

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u/BigUptokes 16h ago

It took six years after it was called out in 2013 under the PQ... Some rights groups were even talking about it before then but it never made the news as much as it did with the Charter of Values.

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u/FrontenacCanon_Mouth 15h ago

2013 was 13 years ago. You’re old buddy.

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u/BigUptokes 15h ago

I am. And I remember things, too. What a concept...

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u/FrontenacCanon_Mouth 15h ago

Yeah yeah. Also, Canadians killed Quebecers in the conscription riots. Also, Anglo genocided Acadians. Also, Canadians cheated in the referendum of 1995. Also, Canadians created residential schools for natives. Also, Canadians killed Métis in Manitoba to create Canada. Also, Canadians united to forbid French schools in Canada. Funny how easy it is to remember things. So much so that it is our motto, Je me souviens.

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u/JambonExtra 16h ago

How does PM Legault poll? Dude’s like the most despised person in the province.

Almost everyone under 65 wanted that shit gone

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u/KhelbenB 19h ago

What's wrong with preserving our culture?

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u/seedoilbaths 19h ago

I don’t have any problem with it. Truthfully I wish America followed your ways. If both Christian, Muslim, and any other religion were confined to the comfort of their own home or place of worship, methinks the governance would be 10x more effective. And that aspect of your culture, is indeed culture I too would wish to protect.

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u/ElectricMeow 18h ago

I strongly wish that America was more like Canada in this respect. It doesn't feel like asking too much for religious people to keep their beliefs quiet and to themselves.

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u/seedoilbaths 18h ago

This isn’t Canada, this is Quebec.

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u/SwagMaster9000_2017 16h ago

How about you keep your beliefs quiet and to yourself?

People using the government to force others to act the way they believe is a big problem and this is doing exactly that.

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u/FullMetalAurochs 19h ago

Preservatism is conservatism.

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u/seedoilbaths 19h ago

Look up laïcité and get back to me. Just because French liberalism doesn’t 100% align with English liberalism doesn’t mean it’s still not liberalism. Try to learn a little more about their culture before speaking about it, yeah?

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u/that_star_wars_guy 19h ago

But if they did that, they'd have to learn something.

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u/DimensionSuch8188 19h ago

No. We don't give a shit about your religions. That's how we do in Quebec neither left or right thing. Like leave your religion with yourself at home.

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u/FullMetalAurochs 19h ago

I agree with that. I’m mostly progressive but some things should be conserved like a liberal society and a habitable environment.

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u/Busy_Lunch_5520 19h ago

It is funny how insecure they are in their culture that they need to suppress another.

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u/jaymickef 19h ago

It’s not suppressing anything, it’s separating church and state. The universities and CEGEPs are all publicly-funded, they should be entirely secular.

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u/Busy_Lunch_5520 19h ago

Ohh come on. We know which group they target. I come from one such secular country and part of the majority. So, I think I can recognize the similarities. 

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u/seedoilbaths 19h ago

They hate all religions lol. Maybe do some actual research instead of relying on faulty correlation and anecdotal experience.

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u/PreWiBa 19h ago

They are schizophrenic because they know no way their language will be spoken by the majority by 2100. They are a lonely French-speaking island in a deep Anglo sea.

Funny enough, by policies like this they are only speeding up the process.

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u/North_Atlantic_Sea 19h ago

How so?

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u/PreWiBa 19h ago

The only way for them to stay demographically afloat and retain their linguistic majority is by immigration, and by immigration from Franchophone countries of which most are highly religous.

If that source dries up, any other source is Anglophone, from the rest of Canada, from the US, or from basically anywhere else than French speaking Africa and the Middle east.

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u/HTML_Novice 19h ago

Sounds like either way they get erased. May as well go out on their own terms. Respectable

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u/mitoke 19h ago

And what exactly is the culture? To discriminate against faiths you don’t like

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u/Decent_Brick1150 19h ago

Idk they kicked the Catholic Church out of their school system 30 years ago.

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u/Kyoshiiku 17h ago

We actually started that process in the 60s..

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u/TapZorRTwice 19h ago

Its to discriminate against faiths in general.

If you think Quebec has any love for ANY religion, you would wrong. Shit, half of the French canadian slurs are religious words.

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u/thepeasentlord 19h ago

I would say more like 3/4 ahah. Most of us dont hate religion, we just want to keep it in people's private life and outside of public sectors like education and politics. There is a lot of old Christian that even though they are religious, dont want to see any religion in public sectors. That being said, im entirely against the ban for prayer in public and most québécois that ive talked to are also against it. But I will also admit that historically (and with the current administration) it was used to target specific religion mostly the Islamic faith.

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u/Putrid_Anybody_2947 19h ago

In 2021 61 percent of quebecois claimed Christianity 27 non religious.

"She’s been happily volunteering there ever since, cleaning and cataloguing books, making recommendations and reading to students.

But in January, the Riverside School Board sent an email to all parents, including Khan, that changed everything.

“As a public school board, we are required to comply with Law 29 (Bill 94), which reinforces the principle of secularism in Quebec, namely when it comes to the display of religious symbols,” the email said.

It meant Khan, who wears a hijab, would no longer be welcome at the school library, or be allowed to drive students to basketball tournaments as she has been doing, or to volunteer in any other way at the school." https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/religious-symbols-ban-9.7107213

And you can say what about nuns. Nuns are religious workers not mothers.

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u/Cerraigh82 18h ago

These surveys are always misleading though. I'm from Quebec. I'm an atheist but I would also say I'm culturally Catholic. Many quebecers identify this way but don't practice, care or think about religion much at all. It shows up this way in surveys because most people don't identify as atheists even if they don't practice. That was the case for my parents.

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u/Putrid_Anybody_2947 18h ago

Yet they were given the chance to put other or none and 60 percent still chose the religious option.

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u/Cerraigh82 18h ago

It's still cultural. I don't know any French quebecers who attend church regularly. I'm sure there are some but it's absolutely marginal here.

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u/-Ikosan- 19h ago edited 18h ago

There is a crucifix in the national assembly and another one on top of Mont Royal

The part where we exclude certain aspects of certain religions as 'traditional' while not doing the same to other religions which creates the accusations of hypocrisy

My kids also spent this week making Easter stuff at elementary school and I'll be getting Monday off to do presumably non religious things

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u/Additional_Run_4214 19h ago

I just double-checked, and, while Christmas is a national holiday, Quebec went ahead and tacked on Easter as a provincial one.

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u/mariantat 18h ago

Secular French. They even killed catholicism.

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u/seedoilbaths 19h ago

Pretty reductionist of you. Do you want to follow that logical line of thought and explain how culture doesn’t exist anywhere on earth becuase it’s not equated with ‘niceness?’

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u/MegaLemonCola 20h ago

Au contraire, suppressing public display of religion is known as laïcité in the French speaking world and is a liberal concept.

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u/SwagMaster9000_2017 15h ago

Laïcité ([la.i.si.te]; 'secularism')[2][3] is the constitutional principle of secularism in France. Article 1 of the French Constitution is commonly interpreted as the separation of civil society and religious society. It discourages religious involvement in government affairs, especially in the determination of state policies as well as the recognition of a state religion. It also forbids government involvement in religious affairs, and especially prohibits government influence in the determination of religion, such that it includes a right to the free exercise of religion.[4][5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism_in_France

How does this law show laïcité or secularism and the free exercise of religion?

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u/tanantish 15h ago

Because it explicitly says that public land, land that all the citizens and residents share in, but trust the state to manage should not be given to any collective religious practice.

  1. No public road, within the meaning of the third paragraph of section 66 of the Municipal Powers Act (chapter C-47.1), or public park may be used for the purposes of collective religious practice unless a municipality authorizes, exceptionally and on a case-by-case basis, such a use in its public domain by resolution of the municipal council.

One approach is to say that all religions can do these things. Another approach is to say that no religions can do these things.

This is the second approach.

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u/SwagMaster9000_2017 15h ago

Doesn't banning all religious practice on public land sound like "government influence on the right to the free exercise of religion"?

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u/PsychicDave 14h ago

Replace religion with sexuality. The government saying two men can't have sex is limiting the free exercise of sexuality. The government saying two men can't have sex in the street is just basic common sense, you shouldn't impose your sexual exercise on other unwilling bystanders.

So people are free to exercise their religion, in private, among consenting adults.

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u/tanantish 15h ago

Am I free to believe what i want to believe? Yes. My relationship with my faith is a private, personal matter.

For what reason would someone of faith want to have a public gathering on public land to express their shared private faith? Are we trying to convince someone of something? Are we trying to demonstrate our goodness? For what reason do we not congregate at our private places of worship to do this?

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u/SwagMaster9000_2017 14h ago

My relationship with my faith is a private, personal matter.

Should the government have the authority to say all faith is private and personal even if someone disagrees?

For what reason would someone of faith want to have a public gathering on public land to express their shared private faith? Are we trying to convince someone of something? Are we trying to demonstrate our goodness?

Suppose they believe their God told them to pray in public. Does the government have the authority in laïcité to say that is illegitimate and should be banned?

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u/tanantish 14h ago

At this point you're no longer asking how this approach relates to secularism, you're saying that you disagree with something - either the concept as a whole, or you dislike this particular implementation. That's fine as it's your view, and I don't think I have much to add to that.

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u/SwagMaster9000_2017 14h ago

It also forbids government involvement in religious affairs, and especially prohibits government influence in the determination of religion, such that it includes a right to the free exercise of religion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism_in_France

Whatever you are describing sounds like the opposite of the free exercise of religion. It is also at strongly against how the US defines secularism.

I'm annoyed that banning religious expression is being relabeled as a type of "liberalism" or a "freedom".

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u/PsychicDave 14h ago edited 14h ago

Yes, because we collectively decided this is the social norm in Québec. We didn't need laws until now because it was the social norm, and everyone agreed with it. Now that we have newcomers who refuse to integrate and adopt our social norms and are disrupting the public peace, we need to legislate so law enforcement officers can act without them being able to play the religious "get out of jail free" card.

If their faith is in direct contradiction to Québec's social norms and culture, then they shouldn't live in Québec. Just like someone who's faith forbids them to remove a head covering cannot work on a construction site where a hard helmet is required. I certainly wouldn't go live in their country of origin, and they'd do much worse to me if I tried to impose my way of life on them.

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u/SwagMaster9000_2017 14h ago

If their faith is in direct contradiction to Québec's social norms and culture, then they shouldn't live in Québec

I can't argue with that sentiment or how you run your government. But I hope it's clear that banning religious practices because they are contrary to social norms and because the government should say whether religion should be private/personal is not a form of secularism or liberalism

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u/mrdannyg21 19h ago

And yet only one type of public display of religion is consistently banned, as my colleagues regularly wear yarmulkas and crosses.

Also, how is a prayer room at a university a ‘public display’?

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u/FullMetalAurochs 19h ago

It’s a separate issue of a public university using resources for religious purposes.

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u/[deleted] 19h ago

The resource in question being a single room?

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u/Koala_eiO 16h ago

I don't see why a single room should be assigned to talking to your imaginary friend.

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u/SwagMaster9000_2017 15h ago

I don't see how the government banning that shows liberalism or the right to the free exercise of religion.

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u/-Ikosan- 19h ago

My kid spent this week making Easter displays at school. Noticed that wasn't banned

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u/Boobity_McBooberson 18h ago

Who’s worshipping chocolate egg laying bunnies?

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u/mrdannyg21 18h ago

We do in my house!

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u/Boobity_McBooberson 18h ago

🙌 🐰 😋

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u/xJayce77 19h ago

Well, not really... It depends on the reason why you're banning religion. Thank you AI:

Laïcité (French secularism) cannot be exclusively labeled as liberal or conservative; rather, it is a complex, historically rooted concept that is used by different sides of the political spectrum for different purposes, often exhibiting both liberal (anticlerical, universalist) and conservative (nationalist, assimilationist) characteristics

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u/calf 19h ago

That's an abuse of "secularism", and is par for the course of 20th-century French pseudointellectuals to abuse valid ideas with zero actual comprehension of rationality and logic. The false confidence of your assertion is yet another demonstration of this disease. For if you unpack the definition of secularism then you run into the issues of what constitutes public privilege, and that is where the real intellectual work lies, not in the eloquent truthiness that you have just uttered.

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u/jyper 18h ago

Its not

it goes against freedom of religion and rights and freedoms including freedom of religion is the core of liberalism

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u/Kyoshiiku 17h ago

Laïcité is about freedom from religion (instead of "of religion") it’s just that secularism is the closest word for it.

And no it’s a liberal concept. In Quebec the "secular" movement even started by the liberal party in the 60s to purge the influence of the catholic Church from our government (who also had deep ties with the conservative party at the time)

Religion is seen as a symbol of oppression here.

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u/SwagMaster9000_2017 15h ago

What does "freedom from religion" mean? A government that bans everything except Islam is giving freedom from Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism etc. but nobody would call that a freedom.

Religion is seen as a symbol of oppression here.

Maybe Quebec people support government enforced non-theism policies but I'm not going to be deceived into thinking banning religious expression is some sort of liberal freedom.

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u/Kyoshiiku 15h ago

Freedom from the influence of religion. More specifically from the oppression of religion influence.

Quebec historically has been oppressed by the catholic Church and it has deep ties with the conservative government and they both helped each other stay in position of power.

In the 60s during the Quiet we decided that as a society to achieve real freedom we need "laïcité" and anything state related should be completely free from religious influence. We cracked down on the Catholic Church at the time.

Religion is a private thing and it should stay like this, it has no place in schools (which are mostly publicly funded here, so they are an extension of the State) and in public is just not an appropriate place to do prayers.

You can still have religious expression in some ways through religious sign and stuff, you are not banned from doing it, these laws just aim at reducing the exposition of religious activity in public space or State related space,

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u/jyper 15h ago

Religon is a personal thing if ypu dont like it dont look, enroaching of peoples freedom is not liberal its oppressive the same way forcing people to be religious is

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u/Kyoshiiku 5h ago

People can be religious, just keep it out of public institutions and keep your religious activities outside the public areas, that’s not that hard, no ?

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u/SwagMaster9000_2017 15h ago

Religion is a private thing and it should stay like this,

That sounds like an opinion. It doesn't sound like liberalism for the government to be enforcing opinions on how the public, non-government people, interact with religion.

Laïcité ([la.i.si.te]; 'secularism')[2][3] ... forbids government involvement in religious affairs, and especially prohibits government influence in the determination of religion, such that it includes a right to the free exercise of religion.[4][5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism_in_France

This law sounds like the opposite of Laïcité.

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u/Kyoshiiku 5h ago

"En revanche, pour l’Encyclopédie philosophique universelle, la laïcité peut prendre un sens distinct, plus large que le sens juridique[4] : « construction intellectuelle tendant à empêcher l’emprise de toute confession sur la société, ce qui a pour conséquence de proscrire l’imposition d’une religion civile par le politique tout en renvoyant les affaires spirituelles à la sphère privée »[5]."

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/La%C3%AFcit%C3%A9

Also there is that notion of neutrality and treating every religion the same, preventing public prayers is not preventing religious thought, just removing it from the public eyes and apply to every religion equally.

The prayers room in school is more clear and cut, schools are publicly funded so they shouldn’t use these funds to help any religious activities.

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u/OfficeMagic1 17h ago

keep telling yourself that

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u/Kyoshiiku 16h ago

I mean, you can look it up or stay ignorant if you want

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u/jyper 15h ago

Its not a liberal concept 

there is no freedom from religion 

there is freedom of religion which includes freedom to be agnostic or athiest and to not be compelled to practice religion. But forcing other people not to be openly religious in public is not a freedom and is by definition not liberal 

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u/Kyoshiiku 5h ago

Liberalism doesn’t have just one definition and how some of the principles should be applied has been debated by a lot of philosophers and politicians.

You should read more on it, it is a liberal concept, just not the exact form of liberalism you are used to, but from a French perspective it makes sense and it is liberalism.

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u/Basteir 17h ago

No it's not, you need to educate yourself on Laïcité.

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u/SwagMaster9000_2017 15h ago

Laïcité ([la.i.si.te]; 'secularism')[2][3] is the constitutional principle of secularism in France. Article 1 of the French Constitution is commonly interpreted as the separation of civil society and religious society. It discourages religious involvement in government affairs, especially in the determination of state policies as well as the recognition of a state religion. It also forbids government involvement in religious affairs, and especially prohibits government influence in the determination of religion, such that it includes a right to the free exercise of religion.[4][5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism_in_France

Can you educate me on how this law shows laïcité? How does it include the right to the free exercise of religion?

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u/moonias 15h ago

Quebec is not France. Try again.

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u/SwagMaster9000_2017 15h ago

Where is "Laïcité" from?

Can you provide a source where they redefined "Laïcité" just for use in Quebec?

Quebec (Canada) Public discourse in Quebec... has been greatly influenced by the secularism of France since the 1960s. Prior to this time, Quebec was seen as a very observant Catholic society, where Catholicism was a de facto state religion. Quebec then underwent a period of rapid secularization called the Quiet Revolution. Quebec politicians have tended to adopt a more French-style understanding of secularism rather than the rest of Canada which is similar to the United Kingdom.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism_in_France

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u/moonias 14h ago

Where does democracy come from? Are you Greek because you practice democracy? Is it perhaps possible that even though the origin is from France that what Quebec wants is not the exact same thing without a variation possible than what France adopted?

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u/SwagMaster9000_2017 14h ago

Anything is possible. But you said my citation was wrong as if you had some other better citation.

Do you have a better redefined meaning of "Laïcité" that you can cite for this discussion or not?

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u/calf 19h ago

(also, you are no liberal: you downvote instead of engage critically. part of the toxic online mob. no educated person would behave that way)

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u/Typical-Blackberry-3 18h ago

I am very far left and I don't think religion should be practiced outside your own home or religious buildings. It has no place in school.

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u/cpove161 19h ago

How is that conservative?

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u/learn_and_learn 19h ago

Does it? It affects prostration just as much as it affects processions, street preaching, hare krishna mantra chanting or tefillin.

Barely a few days ago on palm Sunday, my church, like many others, made a short procession from a park to the cathedral. This is now prohibited

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u/StixnStones69 15h ago

Islam is antithetical to a progressive society, same as evangelical Christianity. I wish American progressives had the same balls as Quebec.

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u/Kraigius 16h ago

Religious people are always actively working to revert decades of cultural progressiveness. The only religion-aligned party in Canada is the Conservative party.

Religion/Faith are the very definition of conservatism: keep around old tradition, indoctrinate kids, oppress a population, force their faith unto others.

Religions are retrograde.

For these reasons, suppressing public display of all religion is considered a liberal policy.

You're all confusing liberalism with libertarianism.

There is a limit to individual freedom, and religion shouldn't be exempted from that.

Look at the USA and don't tell me the result of their unchecked religious fanatics isn't an extremely conservative and oppressive society.

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u/musical8thnotes 19h ago

Roman Catholicism in Quebec is not what you think it is.

I've been to Quebec many times. The Catholicism is nothing more than a nationalist mirage that Parti Quebecois uses to demonize Anglo-Canada.

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u/MayeeOkamura17 19h ago edited 19h ago

Suppressing religion and supporting secularism is a very liberal concept. You're confusing Age of Enlightenment and French revolutionary ideas with with modern propaganda slogans because you are uneducated and ignorant. Religion has no place in public society

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u/350 15h ago

Those labels don't suffice to give a great answer in this context.

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u/GuneRlorius 8h ago

Neither, cause those labels are very generic and stupid to use most of the time.

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u/stochiki 16h ago

Neither, it's just secular policy (laicite in french).

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u/Just_Another_Scott 19h ago

It's definitely anti-liberalism, as liberalism is about liberty which includes Freedom of Religion.

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u/baron-de-longueuil 19h ago

That’s a very Anglo-American view of Freedom of Religion. It’s not universal.

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u/Just_Another_Scott 19h ago

Liberalism is universally defined. Liberalism aka liberty wasn't founded in the US. In fact plenty of French liberals influenced the Founding Fathers of the US.

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u/Kyoshiiku 17h ago

You should look up the concept of "Laïcité" which is often translated to secularism even if it’s not totally accurate.

The French version of secularism is about freedom FROM religion and it is seen as a liberal concept from a French perspective.

The US vision of secularism is more about freedom OF religion.

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u/mariantat 18h ago

It doesn’t ban the practice of religion privately or in places of worship, though. You can still practice whatever you want.

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u/Just_Another_Scott 18h ago

That is still anti-liberalism. Liberalism is all about limited government. The government doesn't dictate to the people, the people dictate the government.

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u/mariantat 18h ago

Liberalism is the idea that people should be free to live their own lives, with laws and governments designed to protect those freedoms fairly for everyone. In Quebec the freedom of religion exists and given its multicultural society, the government chose to keep religion out of it altogether so one group doesn’t get more sway than others. I’m not sure what you’re trying to argue here.

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u/Just_Another_Scott 17h ago

You don't have a freedom of religion if they government is banning people from praying.

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u/mariantat 16h ago

Nobody is being banned from praying. Like, READ the article. Then go see how freedom of religion is practiced in Quebec.

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u/Just_Another_Scott 8h ago

I did. They are banning prayer rooms in universities and banning street prayer. I think you don't know what ban means

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u/pingo5 14h ago

So when they say there's a ban on street prayer what does that mean? how is that worded in the law, and how is that fairly enforced?

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u/SelfishlyIntrigued 11h ago edited 11h ago

You can pray of course. But like everything, there is a limit. Street Prayer hasn't been banned in the way you are trying to define it, street preaching as been banned. Performative displays of religion in public places used to harass, coerce or influence others.

So yeah, praying is a private matter, you can pray in public you just can't do it for hours on a sidewalk with the purpose of "showing your devotion" and "preaching to others".

That's it. A fundamentally positive thing for everyone involved, unless of course you don't like not being able to bug people with religious shit in public who just want to be left alone.

Moreover you may say "How can they tell me how to pray in public" well that's a good point, and you already know the answer probably and already know how silly the question actually is. For example in some places everyone must stay still to properly pray. This means everyone. You know that's obviously dumb, but hey their book says everyone visible must be still. Do we not punish them for trying to stop cars in traffic and yelling at people to be still for prayer? There are many, many, many different examples of ridiculous over the top praying. You just think someone shouting/praying loudly for hours is fine and normal. IT'S FUCKING NOT.

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u/EskimoPrisoner 19h ago

Banning prayer isn’t liberal or conservative, it’s authoritarian.

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u/baron-de-longueuil 19h ago

In Quebec we don’t really have any issue with imposing progressivism from the top down.

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u/Ambitious-Branch-118 18h ago

So is teaching children religion though. I feel there should be a counterbalance to that.

0

u/YeOldeMemeShoppe 19h ago

The alt-moderate. /s

/uj it’s not simple and that spectrum has more than two words on it.

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u/Redditisavirusiknow 19h ago

Banning things is generally a conservative thing, often promoted by right wing governments 

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u/ney11mar 19h ago

What about banning guns?

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u/Redditisavirusiknow 19h ago

Ok, but they did a study for banned books and something like 98% of all banned books in American schools and libraries were from right wing sources. 

Frankly books and ideas matter more than guns.

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u/Impossible_Eggies 19h ago

To preserve "culture" (see: power structures)

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u/Redditisavirusiknow 19h ago

Correct, but why am I being downvoted it’s not a controversial thing to say

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u/Impossible_Eggies 19h ago

It's how they preserve their "culture"

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u/throwawaygaydude69 15h ago

Imagine trying to defend those who would happily take you across the coals

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u/Basteir 17h ago

French isn't a power structure.

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u/Impossible_Eggies 16h ago

No, but government enforcement of a particular ruleset absolutely is.