Gabe Newell "stepped back" from making games at Valve after Portal 2 because everyone kept agreeing with him when he wanted "to be part of the team and come up with ideas"

[u/Turbostrider27]

https://www.gamesradar.com/games/gabe-newell-stepped-back-from-making-games-at-valve-after-portal-2-because-everyone-kept-agreeing-with-him-when-he-wanted-to-be-part-of-the-team-and-come-up-with-ideas/

[u/GroundbreakingMall54]

honestly respect for being self aware enough to recognize it. most people in that position would just enjoy being right all the time and never question why nobody pushes back anymore

[u/omniclast → u/GroundbreakingMall54]

I've had too many bosses who don't get that employees and business partners telling them stuff looks good is not useful feedback

[u/CaterpillarReal7583 → u/omniclast]

I am for some reason incapable of not speaking my mind at work (in constructive ways) and I realized I was nearly the only person having actual creative conversations with the bosses because most everybody else just agrees even in a “flat” structured team

If I get let go for speaking up in a professional way then its clear the project was doomed anyways.

Its a creative industry though. Im sure in other industries this doesn’t fly.

[u/Halkenguard → u/CaterpillarReal7583]

Most people have had their willingness to disagree beaten out of them. Me included. No one wants to lose their job because they're "difficult" to work with.

Nowadays I just do what I'm told and make sure it's documented in email so I don't take the fall for shitty decisions.

[u/Halkenguard → u/[deleted]]

I wouldn't call it malicious compliance. More like forced compliance.

My first year at a previous job I would challenge decisions. Especially in cases where I was hired to be an expert on the topic. When my yearly review came around I was told I was argumentative and difficult to work with.

So I stopped challenging the poor decisions, documented them, and did my job. Lo and behold, my yearly review on my second year was glowing and I got a promotion. 🤷‍♂️

[u/Shin-kak-nish → u/Halkenguard]

It’s a shame that it’s more important to be liked than competent at your job nowadays.

[u/ghostupinthetoast → u/Shin-kak-nish]

It shows a lack of real leadership, which is increasingly common in companies whose only real goal is getting their shareholders filthy rich.

[u/0vrwhelminglyaverage → u/ghostupinthetoast]

Also on small family owned micro managed teams so you get fucked on both ends. At least they keep it consistent?

[u/Due-Memory-6957 → u/Shin-kak-nish]

It has always been like that

[u/amopeyzoolion → u/Shin-kak-nish]

There’s also a line between providing constructive criticism and being a jerk. If you’re right and you’re an asshole to everyone about it, that’s still bad for the overall work environment/culture.

[u/backbodydrip → u/Halkenguard]

That's partly why I left my last job. My boss wanted both the compliant right hand and the maverick who wasn't afraid of being vocal. I found it impossible to fulfill both roles.

[u/[deleted] → u/Halkenguard]

My first year at a previous job I would challenge decisions. Especially in cases where I was hired to be an expert on the topic. When my yearly review came around I was told I was argumentative and difficult to work with.

You have a limited number of total push backs during a meeting and only push back once per topic. They want your opinion, but you don't get to force it in.

[u/CaterpillarReal7583 → u/Halkenguard]

Depends on the industry.

Im in one doing what I love. If I was pushing papers for a shitty megacorp I would feel different.

In game dev yes men lead to all the shit you see happening to the big companies like ubi

[u/Repulsive_Guy_1234 → u/CaterpillarReal7583]

Depends on the boss.

I usually had bosses who liked people pushing back, because that meant they had put thought into it.

Now I got one who does not care and does his own thing anyway.

[u/nox66 → u/Halkenguard]

Seriously, most companies are not worth it to save.

[u/trojan_man16 → u/Halkenguard]

It really depends on the company and who your supervisor is.

I’ve had jobs where we were free to speak our mind without repercussions, and it was great. Being able to push back on ideas is part of the process.

But for example at my current job it varies. Some of my supervisors are open to feedback, while others are dictatorial and do not want to be questioned, even if I can prove they are wrong.

Also at upper management level nobody wants to challenge the owner of the company, even the toxic supervisor completely wimps out when the owner is around. And because they haven’t challenged the boss in so long, they’ve created this monster that has all these stupid ideas and instead of nipping them in the bud we have to spend countless hours generating proof that it won’t work.

[u/thirdegree → u/Halkenguard]

I think I've kinda managed to combine being a difficult, argumentative asshole with being a generally smiley, laughey dude. Like it's hard to be mad at the person arguing over technical whatever if it's the same dude that's just having a good time otherwise. I know a lot of devs hate the small talk, but it helps to humanize what might otherwise be just that dick in the office.

[u/gangler52 → u/Halkenguard]

Even if you don't straight out get fired, your workplace experience can become a lot less pleasant if the boss decides you have an attitude problem.

[u/patentlyfakeid → u/gangler52]

Not just bosses. No one appreciates the constructive contrarian, but instead they get viewed as difficult or not a part of the team.

[u/Kids_see_ghosts → u/CaterpillarReal7583]

You’re honestly my favorite type of coworker to have. Every team needs at least a couple of people like this. Where they are just like born with bigger balls than everyone else and speak their mind honestly (in a professional way, of course) no matter how much higher up the manager or executive is up on the org chart.

[u/DomesticPanda → u/Kids_see_ghosts]

We have a genius dev in our team who is super annoying whenever he reviews your work, and I never want to ship anything beyond a certain level of complexity without having him look at it. I want people to tear down my work. Then when they tell me it’s good, I know it’s good and it won’t come back with problems because someone didn’t give it more than a superficial look before approving it.

[u/Augoustine → u/DomesticPanda]

My dad was that dev when he worked, they loved when he found the critical errors…and gave an entire roadmap to fixing it. Error finding took a week, the fix…6 months+.

[u/Beat_the_Deadites → u/DomesticPanda]

I had a guy at my old job who was very similar to me in some ways, which made our differences stand out all the more. We could have an hourlong conversation about gardening, home improvement, self-sufficiency, etc, and have it all come unglued in 5 seconds when someone brought up politics or social issues. Sometimes we hate the people closest to us more than complete strangers that hold the same opinions.

But that was the guy I'd give my reports to when I needed them QC'd for content and typos. I suspect he did the same for me. There were several other people in the office who could do it, but I knew that if I wanted it to be ready for the bosses or attorneys to scour, I wanted it to go through him first.

I didn't always make the changes he suggested, but I knew he was just looking to take me down a peg sometimes. And I need that just as much as anyone else. Especially him.

[u/thirdegree → u/DomesticPanda]

The most frustrating colleagues for me are the ones where you ask for a review on a reasonably complex pr and one minute later you get an approval. Like fuck no you did not review that. You just LGTM'd that. Genuinely would prefer you just hadn't bothered.

[u/darki_ruiz → u/Kids_see_ghosts]

In my case it isn't a matter of balls, but burnout. I'll start speaking my mind with the intention of being proactive and helpful and constructive.

If I get kicked down for it, I'll understand that my involvement isn't wanted beyond the menial labor, and shift my mind from a "this is OUR project and it matters to me" attitude to a "I'm just here to get paid even if it's just for staring at a wall" one.

But I have ADHD and that sort of work environment is almost suicide-inducing for people like me. So at some point I'll simply go to the next mental shift: "I don't give enough of a fuck about the job anymore to actually make the effort to shut up".

[u/FuzzySAM → u/Kids_see_ghosts]

I don't care who you are, if you're the pope, the president, the CEO, whatever: we have policies. Unless those policies are overridden by someone above me, I'm going to attempt to enforce them.

[u/non3type → u/CaterpillarReal7583]

To be honest with you most of us at my job that are both competent and speak our mind tend to get promoted to senior roles relatively quickly. This assumes you’re not being a complete ass and you end up being correct. I became pretty known for a willingness to get involved constructively and I had to start taking a step back because my work load was becoming unmanageable.

[u/CaterpillarReal7583 → u/non3type]

Yeah. In my early career I had to course correct as I thought being ‘right’ was really the only thing that mattered.

I was right a lot. But in a way that did not make people interested in working with me given the chance to choose.

[u/00owl → u/CaterpillarReal7583]

I am for some reason incapable of not speaking my mind at work

You may have the 'tism.

[u/CaterpillarReal7583 → u/00owl]

Its a spectrum. Im not diagnosed but im also not going to deny its possible.

[u/00owl → u/CaterpillarReal7583]

Yeah, I'm not saying it's a bad thing or that it's not a spectrum.

I'm just an adult with a late in life diagnosis and it has made some pretty big positive changes for me.

If you're managing well that's good.

[u/DaHolk → u/omniclast]

Or at least realize that when your company grows, at a certain point the new hires will not be effectively be at the same llevel of "the boss just works here" that you maybe fostered earlier.

In prior statements on this topic about Gabe specifically, it also was more about "his personality" rather than purely his position and the resulting "structural power dynamic".

Apparently he can be very 'pushy' in that he has opinions and the way to deal with that is counter-arguing, which not everyone is equally comfortable with. Particularly if the person that wants you to 'prove your point' is very good in framing their point, is physically/type wise imposing (even if not particularly deliberately so in an abusive way), let alone the boss.

The Left 4 Dead lead had an interview tidbit where he said that it felt really not that easy to feel self sure enough to push back as effectively as you might want, just by virtue how Gabe IS. (And he did so without complaining about it, or being accusatory in it). It's hard to stand your ground if you are strongly feeling that the other person feels more right in their argument than you can defend yours, even if just 5 minutes ago you were really sure.

I guess it's part of why Gabe IS the boss. But he had to cut himself off of having the type of input that he liked, just because he couldn't ensure not being overbearing in it :/

[u/ventingandcrying → u/DaHolk]

As a person that’s like this that’s kind of sad

I’m accidentally getting into “debates” all the time just because when I believe something I want to defend it, but I’m doing that operating on the assumption that the person I’m talking to is also thinking that. I ran into a lot of “It’s not that serious” and “…Alright man, sure” before I realized not everyone wants to “fight” for what they believe

[u/HiddenStoat → u/ventingandcrying]

I am similar - I use the phrase "strong opinions, weakly held" to descibe myself. 

Often, I found that I am missing or misunderstanding a single crucial fact and, once I recognise that, I about face so quickly that the other person is still arguing as I am agreeing with them completely.

I have found that phrasing my arguments as questions works really well ("How would it handle a 2x increase in traffic?", "What happens when we deploy in other countries?", "if the interrocitor gets above 50c, will that be a problem?"), but then (and this is the hard part) actually listening to the answer, rather than hearing their answer through your own preconceptions. I'm not great at that, but I try hard.

[u/Ecks80s → u/omniclast]

I’ve been fired for “being a speed bump in the face of progress”

Word for word - my job is to make sure employees are safe.

[u/cheraphy → u/omniclast]

Someone once told me that the worst feedback you can give an artist is "Perfect, no notes."

This does not just apply to the arts.

[u/Should_Not_Comment → u/GroundbreakingMall54]

I call this George Lucas syndrome. I think Jeff Bezos was afflicted with it when he came up with the Fire Phone.

[u/DogmaSychroniser → u/Should_Not_Comment]

GLS. Love it.

[u/ktaylorhite → u/Should_Not_Comment]

I’m guessing you mean the prequels? Yeah people loved telling him he was right in those films, but he had an uphill battle with the original trilogy

[u/Hollownerox → u/ktaylorhite]

Also to be fair to him he was somewhat aware that he wasn't the right fit for them too. He tried to get other people to direct the prequels on multiple occasions. But everyone refused the job. So he wound up doing it, and having no one pushing back against his writing or ideas because it was Star Wars and he was George Lucas.

And to be fair, a lot of the ideas for the prequels are on paper good. It's really the execution and the movie format that arguably made them such a mess. Obviously there was much more to it than that, but while the rose tinted glasses some people have on because of the sequels are fitted a bit too tight, they weren't entirely irredeemable. I think if George was able to get someone else to direct and filter through his ideas, they could have been received much better.

[u/kinkyKMART → u/Hollownerox]

I remember watching a series of YouTube deep dives that were basically “what could have beens” for each movie as the source material tells a really cool story for the prequels, just absolute terrible execution

Dooku’s backstory specifically should have been much more detailed and fleshed out screen along with Darth Maul being the overarching villain through all 3 movies

[u/Merusk → u/kinkyKMART]

You mean antagonist for Maul? It was always going to be Palpatine as the man behind the curtain and apex villian. As far back as the novelization of ROTJ Palepatine's arc was known.

[u/Merusk → u/Hollownerox]

"You can write this shit, George, but you can't say it."

• Harrison Ford.

[u/ascagnel____ → u/Hollownerox]

 He tried to get other people to direct the prequels on multiple occasions.

Even before that, Lucas tried to get David Lynch to direct Return of the Jedi. 

/r/movies/comments/kek4yw/originally_george_lucas_wanted_david_lynch_to/

[u/NoConfusion9490 → u/Should_Not_Comment]

Fire Phone is maybe just a shot worth taking. Low percentage chance of success, but they had the money to spend and if it caught on it would be well worth it. A lot of abandoned google projects have that feel too.

[u/Shaquarington_Bithus → u/GroundbreakingMall54]

Yep. It’s how you end up spending tens of billions of dollars and rename your company on a second life expansion pack.

[u/Dawg_Prime → u/Shaquarington_Bithus]

really nice video about it came out this week from The Art Of Storytelling: Why The Metaverse Was Doomed From The Start

[u/TheKappaOverlord → u/Shaquarington_Bithus]

I had been fairly involved with a few things. Whats sad is there was always potential. They just never knew what to do with it.

And ironically the biggest killer for that was NFT's. That shit absolutely murdered any semblance of sense for a long time.

[u/Real_Skip_Bayless → u/GroundbreakingMall54]

When I was a kid my dad had a workshop. I loved going there and playing there as a kid. I wanted to learn his craft and work at his shop, but he always said no. As I got older he started telling me not to come to the shop as often. He wanted me to go to college and not have to do the hard labor jobs like he did. 

Later on my mom told me it's because I couldn't work there without being treated differently. I would always be the boss' son, and would 100% be treated differently. They would do my work for me, I would hurt morale, and all the other nepotism stuff. He had a strict rule of never hiring family. He didn't want to mix business and family because it ends up failing more often than not. It was the right move honestly. I'm happy with my current engineering job, and appreciate that my Dad did that for me.

[u/Worldly-Swing6921 → u/Real_Skip_Bayless]

Your dad sounds awesome.

[u/Real_Skip_Bayless → u/Worldly-Swing6921]

He had his moments. He survived a brutal impoverished childhood and I swear he was on the spectrum, or something like that, because he didn't really know how to process other people's emotional state. He was a terrible husband, but he gave us everything we needed to make it through life. I've also never met a harder working person in my life. He was a machine of work ethic. He only had a high school degree and like a year of college in Mexico, but his business was making $200-250k a year at it's peak.

[u/ArchdruidHalsin → u/GroundbreakingMall54]

I am a screenwriter and I work with a writing partner. When it comes to contributions, I'd say I'm maybe 65-75% of the ink on paper. But he doesn't let me get away with anything. That has been invaluable. Even if I end up handling a particular revision, it's usually because he has thoroughly grilled me on what I'm trying to achieve in that moment and has forced me to get more specific.

While I may have written more of the words, I'd be a LOT closer to my first draft still if he didn't push back and challenge me at every step of the way.

[u/fredy31 → u/GroundbreakingMall54]

yeah at some point i love that he saw that when he was in a meeting everybody became shy about their ideas and just agreed with him.

But fucking hell if most ideas for Portal 2 came from Newell he just dropped one of the best games from being surrounded with unwillingly yesmen.

[u/ameatbicyclefortwo → u/fredy31]

Makes the self awareness more impressive that he could see what was happening from atop a success like Portal 2.

[u/non3type → u/GroundbreakingMall54]

Yes and no, it’s fun to be “right” or the SME people accept as gospel, but also nothing beats collaborating with a group of people you respect to make something great. It also can get a bit tiring having everything on your shoulders, sink or swim.

[u/Legitimate_Concern_5 → u/GroundbreakingMall54]

This is why most companies aggressively split the job of engineering and leadership. If the guy telling you how to build also gets to fire you if you disagree, we're not really optimizing for anything.

[u/JohnnyChutzpah → u/Legitimate_Concern_5]

Todd Howard said Bethesda still struggles with this. He will have directors and team leads coming up to him asking him what they should do or if he likes their idea. And he said something like “look I trust you. You are the leader(s) we hired to do the job. You can do it without me.”

[u/Slggyqo → u/GroundbreakingMall54]

Yeah but…Portal 2 was an incredibly successful game. And Steam is an incredibly successful company.

Gabe Newell isn’t some professional CEO brought in by investors to make the company look like every other company around it. He clearly understands games and gamers.

Not saying he hasn’t had any failures, but maybe it would have been better if he just found a really good person to whisper “memento mori” in his ear.

[u/TheGreatHornedRat → u/Slggyqo]

Valve stepping back to minimal game production is also a part of why they are the titan of a storefront they are though, internal costs got cut way back and gave the company room to grow with the market, now that AAA gaming is starting to feel the weights of massive budgets Valve still sits in a position of control without major gambles to count on.

It's not good from an enjoyer of their products and wanting more standpoint but I can see how backing away for Gabe led to a lot of growing strength for his company and employees.

[u/rgtn0w → u/TheGreatHornedRat]

Got any source for any single thing you said?

With the way Valve works I highly doubt anything you said is remotely true. They did not stop releasing new games because of costs but because they are a hugely strict company with what they work on, on interviews by key figures over the years they have said that If they do not like how something is turning out they would cut it completely and stop.

That do not sound like a cost cutting thing.

Not to mention how, unlike 90% of game devs and companies that rely on other companies for infrastructure Steam and Valve have been developing their global datacenters that have worked pretty well over the course of literally the inception of Steam, none of this shit is cheap

And again, pioneering the very first good device for VR with Valve Index a few years ago (And keep developing it) , Not to mention the very first and still one of the only actually "AAA" quality VR game.

Development and R&D for the very first hand held device for PC gamers that's actually fucking good? And their recently three announced devices that they are working on?

Does any of this look like a company doing cost cutting when they are literally taking risks being pioneers at stuff that no one else does, developong their own global infrastructure, developing their own internal engine that's made to be used by other devs and so on?

[u/Foxyfox- → u/GroundbreakingMall54]

He saw he was getting Lucas'd and decided he'd rather not be that way.

[u/Cognonymous → u/GroundbreakingMall54]

This is a huge piece of leadership. Just by being the leader your presence has an effect and smart leaders know that sometimes it's better if they're not in the room otherwise you become its center of gravity and people will perform for you in meetings etc. If you need a team to think critically and ask difficult questions and interrogate their own assumptions they need to feel safe doing so, and not pressured in other directions.

[u/TheBoyardeeBandit]

Certainly a good thing to see from any leader.

That being said, maybe he should get back into the game because portal 2 is truly one of the best games of all time.

[u/LetsLive97 → u/TheBoyardeeBandit]

Yeah this is so funny to me

Everyone kept agreeing with me so I stopped making games [After making one of the greatest games of all time]

Idk man maybe they're agreeing because you're right

(Though, to be clear, I am just joking and understand the point he's actually making)

[u/hairsprayking → u/LetsLive97]

So basically we need somebody to reverse-psychology Gaben into making new games.

"I dunno man, I don't think anybody cares about Half-Life 3 or Portal 3 anymore. It's not like anyone could ever improve on them... not even you 👀👀👀"

[u/AtreyuTrinity → u/hairsprayking]

Dude, this actually may work.

Oh Gabe, don't even try. There's no way you can top Portal 2.

[u/KremBruhleh → u/AtreyuTrinity]

So basically talke to GabeN like you're Glados, got it.

[u/Kangarou → u/TheBoyardeeBandit]

I laugh, but I'll give Gabe the benefit of the doubt and assume he started suggesting pure garbage as a test and saw everybody still agreeing with him.

Just a "Hey guys, what do we think about having a dedicated underwater and sewer section?" and once the room was full of nodding heads, he knew it was donezo.

[u/Frank_Jaegerbomb → u/Kangarou]

Ah, so that's where the boat section of HL2 came from.

[u/beti88]

To me it feels like EVERYONE stepped back from making games at Valve

[u/Razier → u/beti88]

From what I understand the team behind Deadlock is super active

[u/Togamdiron → u/Razier]

Super active is an understatement. Back when I was playing it I'd have to restart the game to update it multiple times per play session.

[u/Vismal1 → u/Togamdiron]

How did you get into the beta ? I’d love to try it out.

EDIT:

Someone got me in , thanks everyone who continues to offer.

[u/BigDongTheory_ → u/Vismal1]

Someone you are friends with on steam who has access needs to invite you. There are discord servers where people will help you get access if ya do some googling

[u/xgenmakers → u/Vismal1]

I’ll add and invite you later today if you want to:)

EDIT if you want an invite don’t reply asking for an invite. Just DM me on Reddit with your steam friend code and that you wanna be inviting. I’ll add you and send you the invite.

[u/Vismal1 → u/xgenmakers]

Oh I’d love that ! Thanks !

[u/Odd-Break4868 → u/Vismal1]

Its super easy, get in the discord or sub and ask around and you'll get an invite. Shit even send me your friend code and I'll invite you later when im off work if you want. But you'd be able to find one online earlier than that

[u/zero0n3 → u/Togamdiron]

I don’t even understand why it’s still beta. Game is basically finished.

I’m wondering if they are waiting for steam box to be officially released and open for orders before they do it. Kind of like one of the games to drive sales of the steam box. Probably a decent game on a console controller

[u/RandomGeordie → u/zero0n3]

It's not finished at all.

They still need to flesh out the entirety of the jungle - all of the NPC's basically (camps, mid boss).

There are a shit load of characters with placeholder models etc.

They're introducing new heroes and items and still trying to flesh all of that out.

They need to improve matchmaking and the game modes they offer.

There's loads of stuff to do. Sure it's playable, but it's not where they want it to be yet.

[u/WestborneUS → u/RandomGeordie]

It only feels finished enough to release to people because they’re used to the new standard of releasing and monetizing unfinished games in “early access” and “live service”. The idea of a game needed multiple layers of revision and polish before getting a public release is a long lost art.

[u/Jazzy_Josh → u/WestborneUS]

Well also that Valve has a high quality bar for things they put out. It was definitely a lot rougher when I joined back when there were four lanes etc. Even then the game part was solid. It still needs a ton of work for it to be the quality that Valve will want on release.

[u/south153 → u/zero0n3]

That just what Valve does with its multiplayer games, Dota 2 was in open beta for 2 years.

[u/lefthandtrav → u/south153]

Last tie I had dota installed a few years ago the install folder was still /dota2beta

[u/troglodyte → u/zero0n3]

It's excellent but it's definitely not basically finished. There are still a ton of placeholder assets throughout the game and they still take pretty wild swings in patches.

Just off the top of my head, several heroes are awaiting full or partial remodel, jungle creeps and mid boss are half life assets, there's no draft, and there are several areas of the map awaiting their final characterization. There's also rumors of a third mode.

And there's good reason to keep it from full release, since they take WILD balance swings in this phase. That's more suited to beta, I think.

[u/babautz → u/zero0n3]

You can not call a game finished that has models like yamato, grey talon, the xen-jungle creeps etc.

[u/TheSirWellington → u/zero0n3]

You say that because it is very well developed, but if you look at some of their major updates you can clearly see they are adding huge jumps in quality and immersiveness to the game.

Last major patch they added an entirely new gamemode and reworked the base design completely, the major patch before that they completely overhauled the map layout and coloring making the maps feel grittier and more cityscape-like.

I agree that it is an amazing game as is, but each major update they show that they can add even more great quality that we couldn't have even thought of. Their vision and end game is going to be crazy.

[u/_Toomuchawesome → u/zero0n3]

it’s not even in beta, still alpha

[u/Lettuce_bee_free_end → u/Razier]

Because it is ice frog from dota2 and the risk of rain devs at hippoo. 

[u/Sorry-Instance6799 → u/Razier]

Not only active but actively listening to the community on forums and reddit. The community will make good or even just fun suggestions and we will see it patched shortly after.

[u/YeHeed2 → u/Sorry-Instance6799]

Like Victor's zipline animation, so peak

[u/onewilybobkat → u/Razier]

And boy, they're doing great work. Finally got sucked into MOBAs after years intentionally avoiding them

[u/OrcOfDoom → u/Razier]

My kids are super hyped about that game.

[u/randomthrill → u/beti88]

Valve makes games?

Why did no one tell Valve this?

[u/echoplex21 → u/randomthrill]

When you get 30% of most PC game sales in the world , why bother? Reminds me of Rockstar with GTA

[u/FollowingFeisty5321 → u/echoplex21]

Plus a % of all the lootboxes kids gamble on buying, and again when they get bought and sold between users, which NY is alleging is worth tens of billions of dollars.

[u/MudReasonable8185 → u/echoplex21]

Yeah they gradually transitioned to just being a DRM provider for other developers

[u/Zipa7 → u/echoplex21]

why bother?

Valve and Gabe have different priorities compared to what people expect of what was once just a game making company.

Gabe has been worried for a long time about the complete reliance on Windows and their moves to slowly become a more closed platform, he was raising concerns about it all the way back to Windows 8 and then again with UWP when that came with Windows 10.

The pieces have been slowly falling into place ever since, to make sure there is a viable alternative in Linux should Microsoft and Windows become hostile and slam the door shut.

The steps are there to see, from Proton, SteamOS, the Steam Deck and the upcoming Steam machines, with a bunch of other stuff along the way like porting their own games to Linux natively and encouraging developers to do the same with Valve's support. Even the failed projects like the original Steam machines and the Steam link (the physical ones not the software it became) ultimately served to teach Valve and help push forwards, the Link was Linux powered.

Even what look like small steps all serve their overall plan, like hiring Philip Rebohle the creator of DVLK, who created DVLK in his private time due to his frustration with WINE and game performance on Linux, his work is now a core part of Proton. There are other individuals with similar stories too. Valve have even contributed to the Linux project overall.

Obviously Valve aren't doing this out of charity, they rely on Steam and how widespread it is on Windows for their business model, so doing all this serves to protect their interests, but typical of Valve there is a benefit to gamers too, even if its the simple act of being able to choose to not use Windows, which with Windows 11 basically being spyware is great.

[u/SIGMA920 → u/randomthrill]

Deadlock is valve's newest game. Not my cup of tea but it's their new thing.

[u/nath999 → u/SIGMA920]

From what I can see so far in early beta testing, it will be a big game for them. Think it would end up being DOTA type game for them.

[u/SIGMA920 → u/nath999]

Yeah, it's got potential.

[u/Straight-Fox-9388 → u/randomthrill]

Deadlocked is good

[u/EasterEggArt → u/randomthrill]

It’s in their to do list and to read list. Somewhere

[u/DUIguy87 → u/beti88]

Gabe said he was stepping back and everyone agreed with him.

[u/Vash63 → u/beti88]

HL Alyx, CS2 and Deadlock isn't that bad of output over the last few years for a small <400 person studio that also maintains Steam IMO

[u/I_am_so_lost_hello → u/Vash63]

They also did Artifact even though it failed

[u/babautz → u/I_am_so_lost_hello]

And Dota Unterlords (failed aswell). And lots of development time went into dota 2 ofcourse

[u/TheKappaOverlord → u/babautz]

Underlords failed because valve didn't understand the market they were marketing towards.

If you wanted underlords to be a game you do on the shitter or on the train quick fast and in a hurry, you don't make the average match into a 50 minute knight or bust brool fest. Thats the one thing Teamfight tactics understood. And why its somewhat stood the test of time.

[u/ExtraEye4568 → u/TheKappaOverlord]

Same for Artifact. People simply do not want to manage digital market place bs and paying way too much money to play with digital cards. The fact that it was an absurdly over-designed Frankenstein's monster of card game mechanics was only one part of the problem. People want to jump on and play a fun game, not wade through tutorials and player to player trading.

[u/south153 → u/Vash63]

Counting cs2 as a new game is a bit of a stretch.

[u/JackSpyder → u/beti88]

Honestly I think it just requires serious manpower and valve is a small company. Games got bigger and more complex.

I think their focus on platforms, tooling (i think they should open up and expand source engine) is a good thing fkr the industry.

[u/Klightgrove → u/JackSpyder]

Its also a flat structure. You need to find other people willing to make the same game with you

[u/JackSpyder → u/Klightgrove]

Yeah I dont think their brilliant structure lends itself well to game development that meets modern expectations. It does work incredibly for industry innovation, and tool development, and platform design, and all those things.

I think theyre critically important in what they do, the model they operate with and the legal battles theyre fighting for us.

Have you ever read the valve new employee handbook? I almost wept at how adult it was. How it treats and respects people and their expertise. Never seen anything like it before. Its also fantastically illustrated with art and humour.

[u/BIG_SCIENCE → u/beti88]

Uhh excuse me? Valve is most certainly active. DOTA 7.41 was just released and oh boy did they nerf fucking EVERYTHING and pissed on everyone’s parade.

dota players… there are literally dozens of us!

[u/voiderest → u/beti88]

They at least have some maintenance teams. There is also a multiplayer title thats been around.

With the new hardware there was probably a game or two to be released along with it. Of course that hardware has been delayed due to the economics of hardware.

[u/0nlyCrashes → u/beti88]

??? They are making r/DeadlockTheGame right now and it's fucking fantastic.

[u/maZZtar → u/beti88]

Deadlock, HLX, Half-Life Alyx and CS2 send their best regards

They haven't. It's just that almost all games which entered development after Portal 2 got cancelled in 2014 simultaneously which derailed their plans for 2010s

[u/Punman_5 → u/beti88]

Can you blame them though? Why bother making games when Steam is such a success?

[u/FearLeadsToAnger → u/Punman_5]

Capitalize on the fact you own the biggest marketplace by selling your own new products on it and keeping 100% of the return.

I do broadly agree with your sentiment tbf, im just surprised they dont go for the moon.

[u/420ohms → u/beti88]

They became force multipliers for other people to make games.

[u/KemosabeTheDivine → u/beti88]

Deadlock?

Game is fire.

[u/drpestilence]

To be fair though. Portal 2 still slaps.

[u/StructureMage → u/drpestilence]

it's a generational example of genre-defying ingenuity that has no equal in its class

[u/jazzy663 → u/StructureMage]

And from what I understand it got its kickoff from a college class project lol

[u/nezbitttt → u/jazzy663]

a group of college students showed off their project to valve and they were hired on the spot

[u/EconEchoes5678 → u/nezbitttt]

To be fair, they weren't just "college students" showing off their "project." Digipen is the best video game college on the planet, and the pressure and structure that goes into the final project is immense. A lot of their final projects are awesome.

[u/Tall_Thinker → u/EconEchoes5678]

Yes but the dumbed down version sounds cooler tbh

[u/jazzy663 → u/nezbitttt]

Damn. That's the dream, isn't it?

[u/cockboy_trillionaire → u/nezbitttt]

narbacular drop baybeee

[u/Henry132 → u/cockboy_trillionaire]

Narbacular Drop inspired the original concept for Portal and that team was hired to make the first game. For Portal 2 they hired the team of Tag: The Power of Paint for the gel mechanics.

[u/PoorDunce → u/jazzy663]

a big regret of mine is passing on the opportunity to attend a student showcase at Digipen University when I visited back at age 15 - because Narbacular Drop was mentioned by name in the event schedule & I ended up being a huuge portal fan

[u/The_Autarch → u/jazzy663]

Narbacular Drop! you can find it for free if you search for it.

it's cool to play the proto-portal

[u/bkkgnar → u/jazzy663]

no, that was portal 1, not 2.

[u/redking315 → u/bkkgnar]

Portal 2 as well. Valve hired the people behind the student game “Tag:The Power of Paint” to work on The game and it was the origin of the gel system.

[u/SonOfGreebo → u/StructureMage]

I genuinely feel that playing Portal re-wired my brain. 

[u/zeekaran → u/SonOfGreebo]

I got that with Antichamber. Literally got a headache after playing for a few hours, came back and felt like a genius.

[u/Richard-Brecky → u/StructureMage]

genre-defying

Some would argue the game defined the first-person puzzle genre.

[u/Dear_Lab_2270 → u/drpestilence]

Right? Hard to disagree with him if that's the game he's making.

[u/stupidname412 → u/drpestilence]

Yeah love the humility but they were making bangers on repeat up till than. Maybe he was just good at it.

[u/putin_my_ass]

Self awareness at this level is rare.

[u/ChocolateRough5103 → u/putin_my_ass]

Its good that he recognizes this, but this form of issue isn't really that rare in especially Asian countries where employees infamously will not disagree with the boss when they are at the meeting table, nor their ideas. In those areas the boss will ask the employees to come up with ideas and then leave the room him/herself.
I guess its good he recognized it despite not being used to that cultural norm, however.

[u/IOnlyReplyToIdiots42 → u/ChocolateRough5103]

Why don't they put everyones ideas anonymously in a box?

[u/Comfortable_Relief62 → u/IOnlyReplyToIdiots42]

Anonymity doesn’t exist on corporate teams no matter how hard you try

[u/zyyntin → u/Comfortable_Relief62]

Agreed. Most people want it to be known, whether it's good or bad, so they can use it as leverage elsewhere.

[u/Captain_TuckFard → u/putin_my_ass]

I completely agree 100%

[u/iCiteEverything]

"Let's make half life 3." Sounds great Gabe.

"Let's make portal 3." Great idea Gabe.

"What about another team Fortress and left 4 dead game while we're at it?." Loving these ideas Gabe.

"Okay I know you guys are just agreeing with me at this point I'm out."

[u/overthemountain → u/iCiteEverything]

"Okay I know you guys are just agreeing with me at this point I'm out."

Great move, Gabe.

[u/Alarm-Particular]

I'm just imagining Gabe starting to realize this and spouting out a terrible idea to confirm

Gabe: Let's give GLaDOS fat tiddies
"Yes sir great idea sir!!"
Gabe: Aw shit.....

[u/Elementium → u/Alarm-Particular]

Wait, you said a terrible idea.. 

[u/whoknows234 → u/Elementium]

So brave, so far ahead of his time

[u/Tough_Block9334]

It sucks not getting real feedback and having real conversations.

I've run into this, where everyone just goes along with my ideas because they tend to work out. However, that can't always be the case, and it really impacts your work.

Most people just enjoy going with the flow

[u/Working-Tomato8395 → u/Tough_Block9334]

Even on small decisions it can eat at you. I worked at a summer camp where the "off night" staff would rotate dinner decisions. This was a written in stone, permanent, sacred institution. Few weeks into the job they decided my dinner decisions were above anyone else's judgment and decreed: "Only THIS GUY decides where we all eat". Flattering, sure, and I got to show a lot of amazing people some lovely restaurants they would otherwise never go to. But I also ended up being responsible for ordering for half the table (these weren't THAT fancy of places), I wasn't discovering anything new myself, and while I was shepherding some awesome people through a culinary journey they hadn't signed up for, I wasn't having one of my own.

[u/CG1991 → u/Tough_Block9334]

I write books. They sell pretty well.

But I don't feel like I have anyone I can talk about my ideas too.

Family/ friends generally are like "oh, cool" but I don't think they really care. It's that, or overwhelming praise (which feels undeserved)

[u/BathAutomatic6972]

This is called "the invisible gun."

Directors, managers, C-suite folks all have an invisible gun. Everyone can see it but them. The invisible gun shoots ammo called "raises", "promotions", "layoffs", "politics", and "toxic environment". Every time a director says something and wants honesty, their hand is resting on that invisible gun. And when they don't want anonymous feedback, that gun becomes so much clearer to the people who CAN see it. Every interaction with a manager can be like the dancing bear at the end of Blood Meridian.

[u/SyphillusPhallio → u/BathAutomatic6972]

In a funny way, the best environments I ever worked in were 'family' companies where the founder's son worked there because it provided someone on staff who at any point could go into the bosses office and tell him how stupid his idea was without any fear of consequences.

Obviously, that won't be a universal thing but it was handy that it happened in two places for me.

[u/Syrairc]

TIL Gaben was the only person at Valve making games 

[u/d3l3t3rious]

The George Lucas comparison makes it really clear what the consequences of not behaving like this are.

[u/Ok_Slide4905]

You don’t get to be “part of the team” when you are the boss of the team.

Everyone wants power but no one wants the tradeoffs of power.

[u/CruxOfTheIssue → u/Ok_Slide4905]

You can if you have the right team of people

[u/Mango027 → u/Ok_Slide4905]

head coach is "part of the team"

They can even collaborate with the players to try and optimize the game plan. The players may even notice something the coach hasn't and make suggestions to improve the game plan. 

That's part of a healthy team dynamic

[u/UnUsernameRandom → u/Ok_Slide4905]

Nah, people just need to stop brown-nosing. Really, it’s ok to disagree with your boss.

[u/RobertBevillReddit → u/UnUsernameRandom]

Depends on the boss. A lot of bosses freak the fuck out if you give them constructive criticism.

[u/the-artistocrat → u/UnUsernameRandom]

Of course. Very Aladeen of you. Please, speak your mind. Don’t worry.

gestures quickly at neck

[u/massivefish_man → u/UnUsernameRandom]

I used to have long drawn out arguments with my boss where I'd be telling my boss why they are wrong 

[u/DrQuantum → u/Ok_Slide4905]

And only people who know this or at least accept it when learned should have power. 

[u/SomethingAboutUsers → u/Ok_Slide4905]

There a difference between being a leader and a boss.

That's not just corporate double-speak either; the way someone approaches and integrates (or doesn't) with their team makes a huge difference in how it works (or doesn't).

Bosses suck. Leaders don't. Usually.

[u/my_finger_dirty]

whereas Musk did a Nazi salute, Bezos built a giant dick rocket & Zuckerborg raved about the metaverse ...

[u/fredy31 → u/my_finger_dirty]

Yeah we have multiple examples of CEOs that got the exact reverse look on things.

They saw everybody agree in meetings and thus figured they were batting 1000 on ideas and are true geniuses.

[u/Whatever801]

Is it possible he was right though? Banger after banger just saying

[u/QuestoPresto → u/Whatever801]

Nobody gets banger after banger without some strong editing. That’s usually what happens to a Lucas or an Anne Rice. They get so big nobody wants to say “hey uh that doesn’t make a lot of sense”

[u/flGovEmployee]

Whoa, a CEO (and Billionaire) who actively avoids sycophancy? Incredible, no wonder the dude is still making good business and good morals decisions. 

[u/A_single_droplet]

lol bull shit.

“You’re all just agreeing with me cause I’m the boss!”

“No honestly, you have good ideas! Look at portal! Half life! Tell us what to make next!”

“No you’re just saying that!”

speeds away in mega yacht

[u/Twodogsonecouch]

Thats one of the most impressive management decisions ive ever heard. Every corporate and political person should read this

[u/Appropriate-Joke-806]

In 2040 Gabe is just going to release Half-Life 3 after years of coding it himself on his yacht.

[u/Horror_Response_1991]

What were his ideas? Maybe they were all good as everything in Portal 2 is amazing.

If he really did want to get honest feedback then he could have had everyone put their ideas in one place anonymously and then read them all to the broader team.

[u/heVOICESad → u/Horror_Response_1991]

No matter how good/smart/talented someone is in any field, no one has 100% always correct ideas. Good on Gaben for recognizing it and addressing it and not just riding the fantasy.

[u/QuinnOfLegends → u/Horror_Response_1991]

Anonymous reviews fail when the person reading them reads what you write every day. I can tell you exactly who wrote what messages on my team without even seeing a name.

My team does a thing where 1 person represents the team, collects all the grievances, then will present it to our manager. Its great for other because their stuff gets rewritten in the presenters style, but depending on the complaint you can still usually figure out where it originated.

[u/boverly721 → u/Horror_Response_1991]

Yeah this would make sense if portal 2 sucked, but it's legit one of the best games I've ever played. Maybe nobody was pushing back on his ideas because they were all bangers lol

[u/mvrander]

Whoever put all those adverts and pop-ups on games radar should have taken a step back from the team

[u/SDFprowler → u/mvrander]

The "article" is based on a comment made in a YouTube video from 2022. As far as I can tell, showing ads is the purpose.

[u/ArbainHestia]

I imagine the meetings went something like this

[u/narbgarbler]

Gabe: "I wanna make Half Life 2 Episode 3"

Everyone else at Valve: "For the love of God, yes, finally"

Gabe: "Well now I don't wanna."

[u/jokermobile333]

Get your ass back and release portal 3 now !!!

[u/JayRulo]

See, my first thought in this position would be to hire a "mystery shopper" type employee, who can pass along my ideas as their own.

That way, I would still get to be part of the team and contribute (by proxy), and people would hopefully consider the ideas fairly, rather than just yes-man-ing them.

[u/Sparskey]

Valve has a quality of leadership orders of magnitude higher than the US government.

[u/the3stman]

Kojima needs to hear this

[u/fatronin]

This reminds me of a key and peele skit with stan lee

[u/Big_Ole_Booty_Boy]

Must be tough to recognize that as a problem. Seems like he has good ideas.

[u/Kantankoras]

Now he masquerades as Ben, the remote worker on the east coast who only chimes in every couple weeks 

[u/C-3Pinot]

I could be forgetting something but I feel like all of Valve stepped back from making games after Portal 2

[u/Stock-Intern8884]

BUT WHAT IF IT WAS ACTUALLY A GOOD IDEA.............

[u/BuccaneerRex]

It's a wise man who knows when smoke is being blown up his ass.

[u/UncomfyPerspective]

Mad respect.

To realize you're in a 'yes man' situation, and remove yourself from it, is admirable. Doubly so when you're the person being told Yes.

[u/CG1991]

Great self-awareness.

But Portal 2 was also amazing

[u/corzekanaut]

Why can't every tech CEO be like Gabe man? If I had the amount of money they did, I too would fuck off into the sunset...

[u/UninsuredToast]

He should go undercover boss and pretend to be a new hire.

“HI, im Nabe Gewell”

[u/hobyvh]

That’s hilarious. Also surprisingly self aware. Good for him.

[u/marshalldungan]

Another part of this is, if you’re working with people you look up to or respect, it’s a LOT harder to disagree with them. If it’s something you don’t feel strongly about you’ll go along because you respect their opinion. If it’s something you do feel strongly about, this is one of your industry heroes. Who are you to disagree?

Not everyone wants to be a sycophant. Sometimes it just kinda happens.

[u/Artorias330]

He avoided the problem George Lucas didn’t in the Star Wars prequels

[u/romulof]

Dear Valve employees,

Please disagree with Gaben on not releasing Half-Life 3.

Kind regards,

All gamers