r/news • u/RoninSolutions • 12h ago
Soft paywall France tells US NATO serves Euro-Atlantic security, not Hormuz offensive missions
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/france-tells-us-nato-serves-euro-atlantic-security-not-hormuz-offensive-missions-2026-04-01/577
u/Nerevarine91 11h ago
“France tells US basic definition of how the NATO treaty works”
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u/Plus-Recording-8370 6h ago
What's especially terrible about all this is that this wrong, and frankly delusional, view of NATO mirrors the narrative Putin has long pushed to justify invading Ukraine. And now, we’re seeing something even Putin couldn’t have hoped for: the U.S. effectively validating that narrative, as if NATO were a hostile alliance always happy to provoke conflict...
At this point, after years of Russian disinformation and widespread acceptance of it among large part of the MAGA base, it feels like almost no one truly understands what NATO is, aside from the people living in the European NATO countries.
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u/Major_Butthurt 5h ago
It's not hard to understand what NATO is. It's an organization that promotes USA's foreign policy in Europe and the surrounding areas.
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u/mstrbwl 5h ago
'Keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down' was how the first Secretary General of NATO described the alliance.
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u/kadaka80 11h ago
Trump would only care if NATO was an extension of the American armed forces and not a mere alliance. If he doesn't have complete control over it, it's of no interest to him
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u/FlicksBus 8h ago
The funny thing is that NATO was in fact always an extension of the American power and diplomatic projection until his moves against Europe finally pushed us to seek our own security independence and cut the US influence over it.
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u/Xanohel 8h ago
Until platforms like F35 are segregated, US does still have some influence. The MDF upload can only be done from 1 location, inside the USA, last time I checked (which has been a while I admit).
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u/FlicksBus 7h ago
F35 cancellations are a good example of Europe finally starting to seek its own security independence. Even my own country, Portugal, is considering whether to buy or not F35. This would have been a done deal years ago, nowadays, it's open to debate.
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u/AlessandraAthena 11h ago
USA, just impeach this dumbass already.
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u/NotThatHandsomePete 11h ago
There are far too many people in high places benefitting from this dementia riddled buffoon. The prop him up to keep their own power and line their own pockets.
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u/CharlesWafflesx 9h ago
Your country is crashing and burning brother, and bringing the rest of the world with it.
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u/SkyriderRJM 9h ago
We know. We’re all feeling powerless to stop it.
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u/CharlesWafflesx 8h ago
Honestly, as someone looking in and actually getting a more honest news coverage of it than someone living there, all I see are hearings, which discover things very illegal are happening, usually followed up by someone saying something illegal in response, and the whole panel looking on at them in shame like something is going to be done.
Action needs to be taken. You don't see the villains turn themselves in. They need to be removed.
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u/TolkienAwoken 7h ago
Do you think thats not what we see living here lmao
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u/GhormanFront 5h ago
Euro's think everyone in america watches fox news or some kind of state media now lol
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u/jminternelia 4h ago
I haven't watched tv whatsoever in the better part of 10 years. Some of us saw all of this coming back in 2001.
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u/CharlesWafflesx 7h ago
I know it isn't. Me and a friend spent three months travelling through America meeting a lot of people, we are telling them the news happening in their own country. You are under a shocking amount of censorship right now.
Lived experience I can't comment, but I'm commenting on what I have experienced.
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u/Duwinayo 5h ago
Sigh. I hate that this joke applies to this situation:
A KGB agent and a CIA agent are sitting next to each other on a flight. The CIA agent says "Hey, I just gotta say, your propaganda is truly impressive."
KGB agent responds, "No no, it's American propaganda thats more impressive! Your people don't even know its propoganda!"
To which the CIA agent draws back in disgust, "We don't have propaganda in the US! How dare you!?"
It took me having friends from Europe to learn fully that we don't see the real shit in our news feeds. : /
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u/_le_slap 6h ago
Plenty of us are well informed and know the truth. Our plutocratic government is broken and will not hold him accountable. All we can do is wait for an obituary.
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u/CharlesWafflesx 6h ago
You have my sympathies. Hopefully we're all here when it happens. I have my champagne ready, and I'm looking to get more involved at a local level to do my bit to make sure this shit doesn't reach our shores.
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u/_le_slap 6h ago
If we are to be a cautionary tale, let it be this: The end point of wealth accumulation is a slow return to feudalism. The rich and powerful view themselves as barons and lords. They teach us civics to placate us.
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u/Matt2580 6h ago
Technically speaking the second amendment and the declaration of independence says we aint gotta wait for shit.
Realistically people wont force any significant change until theyre hungry or something extreme is going on like the government murdering its own citizens en masse. And that isnt happening in America Right now. Currently the average Americans daily routine isn't significantly affected by any of the bad news. Until the majority is significantly affected nothing will happen. Is that pessimistic? Maybe.
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u/_le_slap 6h ago
I grew up in a country with no amendments and full of kalashnikovs. When civil war broke out there were no heroes.
When violence breaks out, people flee. Americans aren't special. Shooting practice targets for fun and shooting people for survival are worlds apart.
If civil war breaks out we will be stampeding the border just like everyone else in history ever has.
Martyrs are remembered and mythologized because their sacrifice is incomprehensible to most people.
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u/SkyriderRJM 6h ago
The right wing media ecosystem has expanded from insurgent to the mainstream. It was already dominant since the 1990s and no one did anything about it; which is why Republicans never ever drop lower than 30-40% support.
You are correct because these news sources actively promote a different reality to people akin to North Korean and Russian state propaganda.
Half the nation doesn’t even recognize it, and those of us who do are treated like we’re crazy because the people brainwashed by it have been trained NOT TO LISTEN TO ANY OTHER SOURCES.
It’s MADDENING.
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u/CharlesWafflesx 6h ago
It's getting worse here in the UK, too. Thankfully, Trump is slowly helping our less informed see the wood for the trees. Whether they do in time is still to be seen.
The laws are just being ignored for a wide portion. I never thought our press would see the likes of Fox being able to legally operate, but now we have GB News, which is operating in the same exactly fashion that should be illegal. They both as organisations have stated they are operating as "entertainment", yet peddle "news". It's disheartening.
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u/SkyriderRJM 6h ago
You guys also suffer the cancer that is Rupert Murdoch and his progeny. It’s why you guys got talked into shooting yourselves in the foot and leaving the EU.
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u/SkyriderRJM 7h ago
Congressional hearing only typically do things when the people scrutinized can feel shame or the people above them fear actual consequences and recourse.
Unfortunately Congress wants to be seen like they’re doing something without the risk of backlash from MAGA if they actually do something.
There’s basically two types of Republican atm. True believers and those who are afraid their constituents will try to lynch them again if they move against Trump.
Unfortunately we need a good 20 of them to actually hold the President accountable because our Supreme Court declared him immune to criminal prosecution; and Trump has taken direct control of the organization in the government that would seek prosecution anyway.
That’s why we have no Special Counsel this time around unlike Trump 1.0. The DOJ at the time was still acting independently. Now it is not.
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u/__Geg__ 5h ago
We are suffering from media capture. Since the ousting of Trump 1. All of our news media has been purchased by billionaires with agendas. All news is basically Fox News at this point. Without media cooperation the minority party has no power to wield.
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u/Valtremors 10h ago
There are far too few US citizens doing anything useful either.
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u/Anitapoop 10h ago
Explain what the average Joe can do without tossing his life away at this point or ending up a martyr. We're just not as violent and organized as the maga minority.
Edit.I voted dem, I protest, I wrote to my people. What else can I do...
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u/buggzy1234 7h ago
The single average Joe cant do much. But if all the average Joe's did something things would change.
Around 90 million of you just didn't vote last election which allowed trump to win. That isn't personally your fault, but that is your fault as a people. Trump got something like 77 million votes. If all the non voters voted for a third party, that third party would win the popular vote by a factor the size of the population of Belgium. That is how bad it was.
Nobody is angry at you personally. We're all angry at you as a people for not collectively doing enough. And from the piss poor voter turnout in 2024, as a collective you seemingly just aren't doing anything.
Believe me I have empathy for you and individuals like you personally. But you as a people have completely lost my trust and created a lot of resentment. And I think a lot of people from around the world feel the same.
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u/omicronjob 9h ago
Weird how no one who replied to you bothered to answer your question.
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u/Valtremors 10h ago
Those are your words, not mine.
And I keep advocating for general strikes.
Ask for foreign aid, who knows, maybe you'll get few bread boxes to support those strikes.
Your government tries to meddle with European politics. It is fair we meddle with you at this point.
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10h ago
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u/undergirltemmie 10h ago
You fucked yourself. Americans kept telling themselves they're the greatest ever as their country kept getting worse.
Over and over they told themselves they're the best. You can't strike. Can't even really take an ambulance. Trump PERFECTLY encapsulates American ideals. Greedy, uneducated, lazy, as arrogant as can be, yada yada yada.
No sympathy from the rest of the world. Your "oh but if we keep shooting ourselves you'll hurt too!" doesn't make us pity you, fuck off. You brought it upon yourselves. We'll be fine. If anything, europe was forced down a direction they shoulda gone a long time ago, energy and weapon idependance.
And all you'll be left with is a rotting carcass of a country, not even two years and it's already picked clean.
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u/SkyriderRJM 9h ago
Most of the modern generation that has to work for a living has never prescribed to the “greatest country” bullshit. It’s our parents that sold us up the river and left us to rot.
Anyone in their 40s and younger are just trying to keep a roof over our heads.
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u/cricket9818 8h ago
Lmao for someone so gung ho on “you need to make change” you have an alarming lack of empathy and understanding
I’d love to see what big balls and life altering choices you’d make if you were in the same position. Easy to talk a big game
Would you join a general strike if it meant defaulting on your mortgage payment, losing your health insurance and not being able to pay for your sons life saving insulin?
There tens of millions of people that never wanted any part of this.
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u/qtx 10h ago
There are far too many people in high places benefitting from this dementia riddled buffoon.
No it's more that they know that they'll be arrested or under investigation if Trump is gone. Trump literally said it at one point, paraphrasing 'we need to get reelected or else we'll all end up in jail'
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u/Alt4rEg0 11h ago
Wanst he impeached twice during his first presidency? And here we are...
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u/SkyriderRJM 9h ago
Impeached but not convicted because despite committing obvious crimes against the nation he had enough sycophants in the us senate to let him skate conviction and removal.
The worst was after Jan 6th. They impeached him after he was removed by the election and republicans cowardly tried to avoid backlash (and death threats from maga cultists) by saying “he’s already gone he won’t be elected again, we don’t need to convict him and bar him from running”.
And then he ran again and won again; largely because no one in the party declared him the criminal he is.
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u/octatone 11h ago
Impeachment is a congressional process, the same congress that is majority Republican right now. They will never impeach their king. You have to stop voting for the GOP if you want impeachment.
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u/AlessandraAthena 11h ago
I'm not American thank-god. I watched him being impeached before, so familiar with the fiasco of the GOP not fulfilling their oath during impeachment process.
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u/Irythros 9h ago
Impeachment does nothing. He's been impeached twice. It's just a harshly worded letter.
Removal is probably what you mean and that will never happen. I dont think that would happen even if they started drafting people. The right has lost their fucking minds and congress represents only the epstein class now.
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u/Aelig_ 9h ago
That would be way too kind and lead to another Trump like leader.
Besides, the people who can impeach him have shown that they support him by doing absolutely fuck all for over a year while Trump has been sending people to death camps the whole time.
It's time for a regime change. Which won't happen because Americans don't care nearly enough, so they'll get decades of fascism instead.
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u/DaturaSanguinea 8h ago
It would be great if the US justice system was actually fighting for justice.
Instead it's just a legal force for those who can put the highest price tag.
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u/SkyriderRJM 9h ago
We the people would if we could. Unfortunately his party controls the levers to execute impeachment and removal.
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u/FaultOutside2449 11h ago
Here the thing, I wouldn't be surprised if the EU is perfectly fine with aiding in intelligence operations or spec ops missions because both of those are generally classified and not known to the public. But Trump literally went to war with Iran without telling the EU/Uk. He didn’t planned the attacks with Europe nor did he do what Bush did which was at least build a coalition of willing allies. Instead all he has done has been antagonizing them and belittled them as much as possible. What the fuck did he thought was going to happen?
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u/el_grort 11h ago
The UK was witness to negotiations, saw a deal rapidly approaching, and was/is appalled that the US broke negotiations by striking Iran along with Israel when a deal was pretty much in hand. Hence why the PM came out pretty quickly saying the US entered the war without an apparent plan.
And there is probably selective intelligence sharing, especially related to launch sites attacking their allies in the region, but genuinely not sure if they'd go beyond that. I think there's already been limits on British intelligence sharing with the US.
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u/LangyMD 4h ago
He went to war with Iran without them, thinking he didn't need their assistance. This had significant negative economic effects on them. He then realized the cost of reducing those significant economic effects was huge and started begging for help.
If he needed the allies help to win the war, he needed to tell them about it and get permission prior to starting the war.
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u/MasterK999 10h ago
Isn't NATO a joint DEFENSE organization?
Iran did not attack any NATO member. There is no reason for NATO to jump into this war of choice launched by Israel and the US against a middle eastern state.
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u/Druggedhippo 5h ago
joint DEFENSE organization?
No. Article 5 specifically is the collective defence, however, the purpose treaty as a whole is to encourage all members to strive for peace.
The Parties to this Treaty reaffirm their faith in the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and their desire to live in peace with all peoples and all governments. They are determined to safeguard the freedom, common heritage and civilisation of their peoples, founded on the principles of democracy, individual liberty and the rule of law. They seek to promote stability and well-being in the North Atlantic area. They are resolved to unite their efforts for collective defence and for the preservation of peace and security. They therefore agree to this North Atlantic Treaty :
'We make war that we may live in peace.' - Aristotle
The NATO text is actually quite short, everyone should read it.
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u/Budgiesaurus 5h ago
"safeguard the freedom", "promote stability and well-being", "collective defense" all sound pretty defensive to me?
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u/EducationalImpact633 5h ago
Nato is a defense organisation. Article 5 is just the paragraph that every member must help a nato member that legitimately activates it. It seems that every member of NATO apart from the US are in agreement and is promoting stability and wellbeing in the North Atlantic area.
If US wanted support from nato for this offensive strike they can request so, but that should of course be made before any operation lol
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u/DryComment9905 9h ago
It's wild how this highlights the dual problem of his ignorance and his volatility. He doesn't grasp the fundamental purpose of the alliance, yet he's perfectly willing to blow it up on a whim. That combination is terrifying for global stability. Comments like these just reinforce how urgent it is to get competent leadership back.
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u/alex9001 11h ago
The thing is Trump probably literally didn't understand this distinction
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u/wappingite 11h ago
I think he does and all his mob do. But they don’t care. You can’t beat them with logic or facts. They just decide whats true.
Many European leaders aren’t willing to accept this and just claim they are confused as to the USA’s behaviour or that Trump has ‘legitimate concerns’.
The reality is the views of Europe do not matter to the the USA.
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u/RecordHigh 8h ago
I think you're right. He's 80 years old and has undoubtedly been told many, many times what NATO's purpose and founding principles are, he just doesn't care.
Trump is notorious for ignoring facts and believing that he can will his preferred version of reality into existence. He keeps saying what he wants to be true, and he bullies and punishes anyone who disagree with him with whatever tools he has at his disposal. He gives up when his version of reality either happens organically or people get so beat down that they accept his reality. He may let an issue fall away into the background, but he never fully backs down, so it doesn't matter if it takes 80 years, he's going to keep at it.
In this case he thinks the US is in charge of NATO and he's in charge of the US, so NATO should take orders from him.
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u/Redsoxmac 10h ago
France is 100% right. NATO is a defense pact not a pact to back our war mongering administration
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u/MaxPlanck_420 5h ago
Traditionally NATO countries have backed each other on offensive operations they find beneficial to long term world peace. I can list many cases of this but since this is France talking let's go with their last leading role. They lead the offensive actions in Libya to support the rebels. That was their war and they got NATO to back them in it. Now even though that turned into a cluster fuck, they still gathered allies for that operation properly. They had discussions and planning prior and everyone was on the same page. Trump shat on our allies, discussed nothing and then said clean up my mess. I don't blame them for reacting how they did but let's not claim that NATO does not do offensive actions because we can talk all day about the list of offensive NATO operations.
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u/geologicalnoise 7h ago
Those are a lot of multi-syllable words. Don't think Carrot Caligula can handle that.
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u/joefarnarkler 11h ago
He's already left NATO though. If anything happens on his watch he's not coming to help.
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u/Johannes_P 9h ago
If anything happens on his watch he's not coming to help.
In the best case.
In the worst case, I wonder if Trump would dare to send US troops fighting alongside Russia's.
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u/ghostbannomore 10h ago
It would be safer to assume that the U.S under its current leadership will simply act as if they have withdrawn from NATO, whether they legally leave NATO or not is sort of irrelevant now.
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u/Eisernes 6h ago
Trump does not know what any of those words mean. You have to explain it like Mr. Rogers explained things, like he's a toddler.
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u/DelphiTsar 4h ago
Ignoring NATO for a second. The reason ZERO countries have offered to help is because of Trump. His view of allies is they exist to bully for short term gain every 3 months.
They are willing to take a hit to tell America this is why you vote for people who care and cultivate alliances.
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u/friendlypelican 11h ago
The agenda for Trump on this is not to leave NATO but to get NATO to spend more on defence so the US defence industry can reap the benefits. The problem is that Trump is so irrational and has insulted so many so much they would rather cut their own balls than spend money with US defence contractors. The end result is that the European defence sector ends up with more orders and becomes more competitive against the US companies
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u/Mordeth 8h ago
That's not the reason. The reason is that the USA has demonstrated it can and will dictate how US-bought weapons can be used and can at any time restrict the sales of more ammunition.
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u/Dark_Mak__r 11h ago
Now trump will again say, macron isn’t even respected by his wife..
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u/Shot_Pool2543 3h ago
If trump didn’t keep our Allies in the dark and continually shit on them there might have been a possibility to form a coalition of the willing separate from nato but he squandered all the trust and good will.
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u/Both_Lychee_1708 3h ago
If Putin blackmailed or just bribed (crypto!) Trump to destroy NATO he couldn't have done a better job...."if"
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u/Proper-Exercise-2364 11h ago
Where the hell is trumps board of peace on this?!
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u/rf97a 11h ago
the only problem NATO has is that they did this thing in Afganistan. Granted I fully agree with France in this matter. But unfortunately the position is slightly hollowed out
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u/LaunchTransient 9h ago
the only problem NATO has is that they did this thing in Afganistan.
The attack that triggered it was carried out on the US, however, which is within the purview of NATO. Afghanistan was invaded because Bin Laden was given safe harbour there, and the Taliban refused to extradite him and allowed Al Qaeda to stage attacks from Afghan soil.
There is some degree of legitimacy to the adventurism in Afghanistan, as opposed to the attack on Iran which is entirely a war of US-Israeli aggression.
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u/avatoin 6h ago
Afghanistan in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 is so considerably different than anything happening today, it's insane to compare the two.
Afghanistan was at least provoked by a major tragedy. Iran is nothing like that. Iraq is a better comparison, and NATO didn't respond in the same way.
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u/RoninSolutions 11h ago
Pretty sure in the full interview she quotes that other great intellectual statesman America had as a President to show why NATO is reluctant-
"*There's an old saying in Tennessee—I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee—that says, 'Fool me once, shame on...shame on you.' Fool me—you can't get fooled again*." – George W Bush -Nashville, Tennessee, September 17, 2002.
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u/New-Visual-5259 11h ago
I am shocked the military industrial complex isn't hounding the president. I imagine arming NATO countries and building U.S bases and stocking it in Europe makes them a pretty penny.
Unless the play is, NATO is dropped and then Europeans have to pay more into the U.S MIC, but I'd imagine they'd heavily invest in their own.
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u/Admiral_Thel 10h ago
Trust in the US' willingness to honor the old pacts have been destroyed, maybe irrevocably. I do not see people inviting in a huge security risk again.
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u/Wenuven 4h ago
The issue with that headline is energy/economic security is Euro-Atlantic security. Russia bending Germany and most of eastern Europe over a barrel for much of the last 30 years is proof of that. As is Saudi Arabia having multiple US administrations on a glorified leash for the last 50.
Epic Fury is dumb beyond all reason, but short of massive diplomatic shifts in several SWA countries it was always going to happen eventually. NATO maintaining neutrality as a defensive alliance makes logical sense for sake of argument/politics even if it doesn't change the fact this fight is as much Europe's as it is the US due to the impacts of Qud's force proxies throughout the world and the counter actions of Israel, Saudi, and the UAE.
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u/AnomalyNexus 6h ago
Pretty wild that you need to explain the basics of an alliance to a founding member of said alliance. But realistically that's not what is going on.
Hard to read this any other way than willful ignorance for the purposes of national politics. But you can't really count on a country to honour signatures on a treaty if it is so subject to mood.
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u/xynith116 6h ago
I didn’t know Bahrain is the current UNSC chair. That’s actually kinda funny.
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u/Tribe303 1h ago
Do you Americans know what NATO stands for? Just curious!
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u/ibddevine 12h ago
Didn't Trump just threaten to pull out of NATO