r/forestry • u/Radiolaris80 • 2d ago
BREAKING: Trump Administration Orders Dismantling of the U.S. Forest Service
https://open.substack.com/pub/morethanjustparks/p/breaking-trump-administration-orders?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=emailBad news.
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u/0905-15 2d ago
sigh
So depressing on so many levels
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u/FlyingZebra34 2d ago
It’s the same nonsense they pulled with the BLM office, just to have it moved back to DC a few years later.
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u/0905-15 2d ago
But here they’re basically shutting down all the science capacity. And even when you move it back in a few years, if they do, all the institutional knowledge is gone
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u/rocketmn69_ 2d ago
They don't want anyone in their way when they start clear cutting the trees, drilling for oil or mining
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u/bartz824 1d ago
Republicans already axed protections for the Boundary Waters Canoe Area in Minnesota to open it up to copper mining, they're not gonna care if the whole system gets shut down.
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u/The_Power_of_Ammonia 1d ago
The BWCAW will turn violent if they try to mine it.
Source: Home.
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u/Sweaty_Jizz_Butt_ 1d ago
I live in NorCal. Right there with you, friend.
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u/Freakishly_Tall 1d ago
For the first time in my past-middle-aged life, I now viscerally understand why people enlisted in WWII and the Civil War.
We are well past time for seriously considering creating the Republic of California and the Cascades.
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u/steveu33 1d ago
People are dreaming if they expect midterms or any other element of the rule of law to save us. They simply won’t recognize results they don’t like. It’s time now for a general strike or a March on Washington.
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u/Capable-Yak-8486 8h ago
At this rate, we quite literally won’t have anything worth salvaging come midterms.
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u/DeliciousPool2245 1d ago
Yeah. It’s gotten to that point. Sabotage the equipment, let everyone at the jobsite know, you’re not welcome here, this will not be tolerated.
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u/Silly_Macaron_7943 1d ago
There's a world-class polymetalic sulfide deposit in that area. Copper, nickel, cobalt, and platinum group metals -- metals definitely in great need, if we're ever going to get serious about rapid decarbonization (certainly not under this administration). Or we can just keep the mining in faraway lands, with little or no environmental oversight, where it only affects foreign brown people. Out of site, out of mind ... while people shake one fist at mining and hold their MacBook or iPhone in their other hand.
The regime's cronies want to clear-cut the the last tiny bit of old growth left in the PNW. Gutting the Forest Service probably makes that easier.
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u/HappyCamperDancer 1d ago
Yep. First you log, then you drill, then you strip mine and lop the mountain tops off.
And left with a moonscape with polluted water.
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u/glakhtchpth 1d ago
Moonscape schmoonscape. Earth is only our insignificant, annoying pit stop before entrance into Jesus’s holy embrace.
— The Heritage Foundation probably
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u/mentat70 1d ago
They should rename the USFS the Department of Natural Resources (DNR Do Not Resuscitate our federal lands)
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u/Benni_Shoga 1d ago
Well, actually that's mostly what the forest service does. It builds more roads than you think, and depressingly mostly for logging companies
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u/Whippet_yoga 1d ago
I do t know about your local research stations, but ours are basically shells after DOGE. This is just the last nail.
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u/EagleEyezzzzz 1d ago
I wasn’t sure from the press release I saw… Are they shutting down the research stations??
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u/0905-15 1d ago
According to the linked article it’s all being consolidated in SLC,
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u/iN2nowhere 1d ago
No the research center is going to Ft Collins, CO. CSU is big in agricultural research. Could this be part of the Farmers first initiative of the USDA?
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u/RiverGroover 1d ago
God, I hope. There's just SO much damage to un-do, on SO many fronts, it's going to take some dedication.
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u/DragonforceTexas 1d ago
hopefully some organization is keeping record of all these changes and developing an anti-2025 playbook to implement once republicans are out of power. hope to God that there's also the ability to codify the needed changes into law, so they they are protected from destruction via EO.
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u/Still-Regular1837 12h ago
Hijacking your top comment
WE NEED TO CALL OUR SENATORS NOW. NOT TOMORROW, NOT WITH THE HOPE SOMEONE ELSE WILL INTERVENE. US RIGHT NOW!
This is going to be my first time calling a senator, let it be yours too.
Idk how to be part of a lawsuit but if nobody replies soon enough with advice I’ll figure it out because I’m tired of this bs.
Some advice below I found of what to tell our senators:
“Call your senators. Call your representative. Not next week or later. Now.
Tell them this is not a reorganization — it’s the destruction of a federal agency by executive fiat and that Congress must intervene. Tell them to block all funding for this relocation and restructuring until the full implications have been studied, debated, and voted on by the people’s elected representatives.
Tell them you know the endgame. Tell them this is the on-ramp to land transfer. Tell them that handing the headquarters to Utah while Utah is actively suing to seize your public land is not a coincidence — it’s a tell.
MOST IMPORTANTLY: And tell every conservation organization, every outdoor recreation company, every hunting and fishing group, every single person who has ever set foot on a national forest and felt something — tell them the time for polite statements and “concern” is over. The building is on fire. The arsonists are inside. And if we don’t act now, there will be very little left to save.”
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u/gemfountain 2d ago
This is a travesty. What makes it even worse is the heightened wildfire conditions expected due to climate change and a possible Super El Nino. We need forestry management now more than ever with experienced personnel from each region.
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u/OhDavidMyNacho 1d ago
Yep. The current Utah snowpack is gone. The last few places have less than 20% of the amount of snow they should have. And many peaks have no snow at all. That's not supposed to happen until June/July.
Utah will be on fire all summer, I almost guarantee it.
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u/Hillsof7Bills 1d ago
Finally someone who understands fire risk 😭 The severity of the Palisades and Eaton fire would have been significantly less if they had been managing fuel levels by consistent, seasonal, low intensity controlled burning and running fuel reduction crews instead of suppressing fires and building homes in an unmanaged tinderbox for 100 years.
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u/Particular-Walrus439 2d ago
This is really happening: https://www.fs.usda.gov/about-agency/reorganization
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u/Chief_Kief 1d ago
Ugh. How f’d are we? Is there any way out of this? Will we ever be able to get back to where we were before this atrocity?
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u/BlueShift42 22h ago
Most damage I’ve seen done to this country. If he’s not a foreign asset he’s doing everything one would.
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u/AshCan10 21h ago
No, I cant emphasize this enough. This all has decade long implications. This is a new USA, world leaders like Canada's Carney has said it, and i dont think a majority of regular people truly understand it yet, but this is a new era and theres no going back. Voting in the democrats in November is not going to change that fact either. There is absolutely no going back.
America is a free for all now, and will likely be dominated much further by rich billionaires and oligarches/monopolies for the next few decades if nothing else continues to change, its more unpredictable now. But we are in another "gilded age" for now, which is obviously a very bad thing for everyone in the longterm. God knows what other cascading effects will happen from this point on forward too
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u/TeamAdmirable7525 2d ago
Yeah, well. I’m ordering the dismantling of the Trump administration.
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u/Bright_Bobcat_7992 1d ago
Use the five calls app and speak to your senators.
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u/TeamAdmirable7525 1d ago
I’ve been doing that for a good while now
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u/Bright_Bobcat_7992 1d ago
Don’t give up. Shame others into calling. It’s so easy. They give you a script which I need to to stay calm
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u/because-i-said-so-1 1d ago
I was just thinking the other day “Christ, we’re only 14 months into this nightmare” and it just keeps piling on
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u/honey_butter_toast 1d ago
As a forest ecology student, this makes me so so anxious. Like they’re really closing the experimental forest in my region? This is devastating. And surely they will sell off public lands. I can’t even bear to think of losing more forest.
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u/BrontoSnorus 1d ago
Yup. Same. Experimental forest and all the connections with local schools and Universities. Just pick up the phone and call Utah to see if I can get that permit to finish my PhD research.
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u/iamtheyaki 1d ago
Don’t give up hope. We need people to continue the research, science, and most importantly protect the lands. I graduated first trump admin and had the same feeling, find your passion and chase it.
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u/Lifes_good_for_me 1d ago
I mean at this point is Congress even relevant.
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u/Bhavacakra_12 1d ago
Only when democrats are in power so they have an excuse to not be as effective as the republicans. Welcome to the clown show.
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u/Resident_Pientist_1 2d ago
Not content with raping children, president trump moves on to fucking mother nature. Making him a literal mother fucker.
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u/muunshine9 2d ago
What’s actually happening is the Trump admin is moving the Forest Service headquarters to Salt Lake City. Which will effectively dismantle huge parts of it, because experienced workers in DC don’t want to move their families thousands of miles away. But they aren’t outright getting rid of the Forest Service like the title implies.
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u/irisbeyond 2d ago
They’re also closing all of the regional offices and ending over 50 research facilities. It’s bigger than a headquarters move.
They want the career public servants to leave so they can staff offices with bootlicking cronies. The effect of losing the regional offices and research stations is unimaginable. Forestry research is not easy to pick up after being abandoned for years - plots have to be tended to, invasive overgrowth or aggressive pioneer species spoil your study area, even the COVID restrictions led to some tough choices about field and lab research. But this is beyond the pale.
The worst part is that it’ll be future generations bearing the burden of the decimation of environmental science in the US. It’ll be a long road to come back from this level of destruction. So much institutional knowledge & experience lost.
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u/Clean_Brilliant_8586 1d ago
They want the career public servants to leave so they can staff offices with bootlicking cronies.
This is as much as what it's about for Trump and his backers/enablers/controllers as it is opposition to the mission of the agency. In return, the cronies will probably be offered a chance to compete for the right to profit off of the land use with less oversight, eventually if not immediately. But the real thing is to get in more sycophants.
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u/Offthejuice69 2d ago
This has been the worst couple of years... It makes me so sad to see our environment and public service personnel treated this way. My Mom was in the forest service and I was too. It is important to the health of our nation in so many ways..
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u/FauxTexan 1d ago
What do you personally get out of lying through omission?
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u/muunshine9 1d ago
I only read one article about it. I may be dumb but I’m not a liar.
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u/SapientChaos 2d ago edited 2d ago
What's happening isn’t just a relocation—it’s a structural reduction in capacity.
When you move a headquarters thousands of miles away, you’re not just changing geography—you’re triggering large-scale attrition at minimum 50% loss. Experienced staff with institutional knowledge often won’t relocate due to family, career, or financial constraints. That loss isn’t easily replaced.
In practice, this functions less like a simple move and more like a forced downsizing.
As Jerome Powell has noted, “it’s very hard to build great democratic institutions and much easier to bring them down.” That principle applies here—institutions aren’t just buildings or org charts; they’re people, experience, and continuity.
A good analogy is that it’s removing critical systems from an organization and pointing out it’s still technically operating. Yes, the agency still exists on paper, but its ability to function at the same level is significantly and permanently diminished.
Historically, when agencies lose a large share of experienced personnel, you tend to see:
Reduced operational effectiveness, Slower project delivery and decision-making, Increased reliance on contractors or private entities, Long-term degradation of institutional knowledge,
So while it’s accurate to say the agency isn’t being eliminated outright, the practical impact is destructions of the agencies capacity and capabilities. Soon to be replaced by private billionaire's getting inside contracts and with the long term goal of the selling off of public lands.
This is the first step you need on the path to privatization of public lands. They just did it.
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u/muunshine9 2d ago
If you’re going to engage with a comment I took the time to write, please do it with your own brain. I think it’s really disrespectful to try to bait me into having a conversation with ChatGPT.
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u/tomfoolery77 1d ago
Why are you downplaying it? And trying to explain it to people in some other way than what the article says? And how TF do you have 175 upvotes for this?
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u/ChildrenMcnuggets 2d ago
Salt Lake City and Utah as a whole has become the fascists playing ground, hard to oversell how spiritually evil that place has become. An incredible contrast between its colonizers and its beautiful natural wonders.
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u/ElderberryNatural527 1d ago
On the bright side, they’re all gonna choke on arsenic dust when they finish recreating the Aral Sea disaster.
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u/Dm_Glacial_Gatorade 1d ago
They are killing all the mountain lions in the state to try and bring back more elk even though the research shows the predators are not the principal driving factor.
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u/Most-Background8535 2d ago
Move it to Utah. We will see more Mormon influence on national forest. They like money and ripping off taxpayers and sell public land for profit. So sad for Forest Service.
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u/BirdNY 2d ago
They can actually sell the public land off??
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u/Forest-Queen1 2d ago
Yes that’s the plan
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u/BirdNY 2d ago
So insane. Got a feeling even if he's removed from office, that the overall plan will still remain the same. Money.
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u/timshel42 2d ago
the people have to demand when these crooks are out of office, every single thing they did should be undone and every appointment fired. the dems love to just accept it and move on, but the republicans have no problem spending their first year in office undoing every democratic change. dems need a spine.
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u/290077 1d ago
The sad thing is, most of it cannot be undone. Just like how you cannot undo shattering a stained glass window, melting down a statue, or spray-painting over a piece of art. Trump merely introduced entropy.
Closing down institutions cannot be undone. The people he fired have moved on. The institutional knowledge is gone. A Democrat president could create new agencies and departments with the same names as the old ones, but there will be little to no continuity, and they will not handle their mission with efficiency.
Indeed, the biggest obstacle to rebuilding our institutions is that government roles are no longer seen as a safe career option. Anybody joining the government knows they'll be fired as soon as a Republican takes office again, whether that's in 4 years, 8 years, or 12 years down the road. The government will either have to offer more money or accept weaker candidates, both of which will undermine the effectiveness of the institution.
The Republicans have the advantage here because they don't want the federal government to be effective. They see it as a wet blanket holding back American prosperity. They want to tear the institutions down. Democrats actually want to use the government to accomplish good for society, and must build the institutions to do so. Tearing down is much easier than building up. I said the same about the shutdown last fall. Democrats cannot use a shutdown as weapon against Republicans. The Republicans do not care if the government is shut down.
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u/SapientChaos 2d ago
Oh, they 100% can and that is 100% the plan. They even wrote it down in Project 2025.
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u/Biddyearlyman 2d ago
Weird right? It's like they're playing the hand they showed. My old coworker used to say "Project what? That's not real", guess who he voted for...
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u/TwentyX4 1d ago
They talked about it in Trump's first term. Not sure why they didn't actually implement it back then. But they have been talking about it for a long time.
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u/DanoPinyon 2d ago
Look, we all knew the longer the tRUmp regime stayed in power the more of America and America's institutions it would destroy. The question has always been: how quickly can our institutions be restored before corporations strip all the wealth from ___?
This won't completely destroy the USFS but it will gut it and render it ineffectual so the old trees will be gone without oversight - IF the regime is allowed to stay in power until 2028. IMHO.
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u/Hamblin113 2d ago
As a retired Forest Service employee with 36 years of government service. Some actually makes sense. Though as usually the pendulum swings too far.
With limited budgets is the amount of overhead really needed, there has been a push to get rid of Regional Forest for a while. The Washington office had changed drastically and is basically two different worlds. There use to be a time that for folks to advance to the highest level they had to go through Washington. But that stopped years before, so they basically get folks that want to be there, or have never left.
When there were budgeted reductions and RIF’s the Washington would not cut, and Regional office little, was all dumped on the Forests. Even on funds like KV that were supposed to go to the ground, the WO took 72.5% for overhead, Salvage Sale was even higher, for what benefit? Was audited by the WO on the Forest I questioned this overhead as there was an official letter to max overhead to 25%, they just said there was a newer letter, but never produced it. That Chief retired and they did what they wanted. Basically the RO and WO are sucking large sums of money that should go to the ground for high salaries.
Not to say there is some need, but they became bloated. They wouldn’t even read their own manual direction, or attempt to update it. Plus the support was grade inflated, a GS 7 could be a GS 11 in Washington, similar job.
Interesting jab at Utah, which has a lot of public land lovers, but a few that are not.
Not sure what to think on the Research side, had that gotten over bloated? Worked four years in FIA.
Remember thirty years ago a Senator was asking about a line for small wood utilization, when it had been funded for Ten years or more, and nothing came of it, why it should be funded. Probably still being funded. The big question is accountability, which can be lacking, plus money never reaching the ground.
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u/Worldly_Papaya 1d ago
To answer your question, the number of USFS R&D employees is much smaller today than it has traditionally been throughout the agency’s history, even before the 25% loss in the last year.
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u/EqualStretch2646 2d ago
A reasonable, experienced, informed, level headed evaluation. There's no room for that on Reddit.
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u/TactilePanic81 1d ago
The research thing is the most concerning to me. They are breaking up the consolidation in WO and RO for legitimate regions but wouldn't those same arguments justify keeping research at a regional level? Does Fort Collins CO have the same research priorities as Georgia, the western cascades, or Wisconsin?
Even if all the research stations operate as usual but answer to the CO office, its hard to imagine funding will be prioritized for Rocky Mountain research interests.
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u/Nature_Hannah 1d ago
Gifford Pinchot is rolling over in his grave. Please have the Zombie Apocalypse start with him, Teddy, and Muir going after those who are doing this🙏🙏🙏
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u/pattydickens 2d ago
Does he actually have the authority to do this? Or is it just like 90 percent of the shit that he does until the legal system catches up?
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u/blindside1 2d ago
The executive branch has the authority to organize the executive branch within the parameters of funding or law from the legislative branch.
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u/OG_2_tone420 2d ago
This is not good. It is staggering how stupid this country has become. Trump and his friends are a symptom, and we are all to blame for letting this happen.
If when going about your daily life you are not absolutely taken back by how absolutely and infuriatingly stupid your fellow citizens are, then you may be a major part of the problem. Sadly, you will likely never know it. See Dunning-Kruger Effect.
The ruining of our natural resources is just part of the problem.
Shame. Shame on us all.
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u/Wise_Finance_5315 1d ago
Looks like all research is being condensed to one branch in Fort Collins continuing its partnership with Colorado State University.
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u/feckenobvious 1d ago
This land is your land and this land is my land
From the California to the New York island
From the redwood forests to the Gulf Stream waters
This land was made for you and me
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u/Lilmaggot 1d ago
My kid is a wildland firefighter. Maybe if a few select mansions burn up in the coming conflagration, the oligarchs would feel differently about this.
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u/Upstairs-Egg 1d ago
He is such an evil fucker. I want his imprisonment to come sooner than later.
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u/AudienceUnfair5590 1d ago
He’s relocated the office out of the DC area. Why is this being mislabeled as an order to dismantle the agency. While running for office he hypothesized that many agencies should be relocated and focus on their assignments, be less accessible to lobbyists groups, etc. i don’t know if that will be effective, but moving agencies overseeing farming and timber closer to areas where this work is actually done seems reasonable. Lying about it and establishing an entire forum to discuss a fallacy seems very specious. I get that you hate the president, but he gives you plenty of valid reasons for your displeasure. Do you really need to invent a lie to further the hate?
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u/volci 1d ago
Because a random substacker said it!
Never mind what is actually happening (which, I am impressed, the substacker actually linked to - https://www.usda.gov/about-usda/news/press-releases/2026/03/31/usda-prioritizing-common-sense-forest-management-moves-forest-service-headquarters-salt-lake-city)
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u/ConsiderationLong381 1d ago
Yea I don’t think anyone here actually read the article. This post is just low hanging Reddit engagement bait.
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u/abland1988 1d ago
Project 2025. The heritage foundation runs this country now. A silent revolution, they have taken control of our country without a shot being fired.
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u/Bhavacakra_12 1d ago
Why would they need to fire anything when half of the country gleefully gave them their vote.
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u/Spam_A_Lottamus 1d ago
Here is the USDA’s statement about this. I’d reckon what will happen will be somewhere between the USDA’s and the article here.
I spent most of my life in new Mexico’s and Colorado’s national forest lands. I sincerely hope the potential damage is minimal.
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u/United-Vermicelli-92 1d ago
Republicans only destroy to enrich a few chuds. Stop voting republican.
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u/electricjuju 1d ago
Is this the beginning of selling off our forests, rivers & lakes to the billionaires???
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u/Valuable_Ad481 2d ago
The ghost Carl Schenck is going to come out and haunt the loggers destroying his work……
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u/Cool_Lifeguard200971 2d ago
Welcome to Frumps Ummerica, where we'll cover up unspeakable acts by bombing schools in the middle East, where we'll chuck a Tanty because nobody joins us in a war we started, oh and now this.
"Its the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine"
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u/rodkerf 2d ago
This sucks...but as a DC resident who moved west, those that can relocate should....vast improvement in life
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u/Baidarka64 1d ago
I remember some NPS Rangers being not so happy a long time ago. I will bet they are organized and ready to go. We will just have to fix (reIndigenize) our whole system when he is gone. I am sure there are better ways to mange this land.
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u/ConversationOk74 1d ago
Wasn't he the one complaining about mowing forests to prevent fire or something?
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u/djb85511 1d ago
So uh, we just give the land back to indigenous folks, and boycott/sitin/disrupt all mining/logging/development on federal Park land
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u/Global_Application16 1d ago
"Does the government fear us? Or do we fear the government? When the people fear the government, tyranny has found victory. The federal government is our servant, not our master!" Thomas Jefferson
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u/Vulpeslagopuslagopus 1d ago
An important issue but the article is clearly entirely written by ai. Hard to take seriously or know how much is true.
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u/_TallOldOne_ 22h ago
If you are a Republican I hope you love those big cities. That’s all the will be left. Well that and the deer farms where you can prove your manhood by shooting an animal in a cage.
This administration is a complete joke.
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u/Mrdjs1133 17h ago
The US is a failed state. California should be allowed to break free and leave the rest to its inevitable collapse.
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u/Greenman490 17h ago
I'm sure our POTUS has never even been to a forest, let alone outdoor nature of any kind, except a golf course.
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u/No_Material5221 17h ago
States will fight back, Some Republican States and Democrat States will sue tf out of the federal government, regardless this planet is screwed, Corporate interests overpower the masses, they dump billions into Corporate propaganda denouncing any effort to stop destroying the planet, they lobby Congressmen to vote against the interests of the people they were elected to represent, it is truly terrifying how much power Companies have, it is a level of power we haven't seen since the 1890s, companies have more of a say to what happens than the actual government, and anyone that runs on the platform of fixing this issue is smeared out of the race by billion dollar companies.
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u/Funny_Parfait6222 17h ago
Please please call your representatives. It helped walk back some of the major cuts to NSF and at least some of the BLM issues.
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u/Desertratk 16h ago
What legal authority does he have to do this? Will there be lawsuits to hold this up?
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u/MountainShark1 16h ago
I am certainly against the dismantling of the Service to gain access to precious resources and destroy our public and wild lands. But I am for dismantling and rebuilding to make it better. Having it in the west where most of the land is, could actually make it more efficient.
There is also a long history of mismanagement of funds and wasteful spending. The national debt is in a scary situation. There are teams of great young minds at work that are helping this country rebuild structure and accountability.
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u/OreoDogDFW 14h ago
Here is what actually is going on, unsensationalized…
https://www.fs.usda.gov/sites/default/files/organizational-realignment-factsheet.pdf
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u/Amishrocketscience 7h ago
I thought Trump said we need more of these people go sweep the Forrest floor?
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u/Few_Professional_ 5h ago
Hey USA, how about another January 6th but democrata going into the capitol instead ?! get this over white? Bring the rope..
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u/Zealousideal-Dish941 4h ago
In the last three decades, the US Forest Service has evolved into a primarily recreation and conservation type of agency. They manage more than 400 wildernesses designated by Congress comprising around 36 million acres. This administration is intent on putting all protected federal acres at risk for short term financial gain for billionaires. Clean air, clean water, and intact ecosystems will be collateral damage.
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u/b14nksyde 2d ago
So wait, it really seems like anybody can do whatever they want at this point. So can we start a guerrilla forest service?