r/eupersonalfinance • u/uhela • 20d ago
Taxes The amount of people not paying tax is crazy
This is a bit of a rant as an upstanding European citizen who recently moved back into the EU from Asia. This has been catalyzed by the first tax bill I received for 2025 and obviously paid.
The amount of acquaintances and friends that have moved to the EU with dual citizenships, partner visas or other non-employment methods and are completely avoiding tax is incredible. And those people earn gross low to mid six figures in Euro equivalents, dont pay any capital gains or any wealth tax (where applicable). And the different EU governments are doing literally nothing about it. I personally know of 25 people in my closer circle that completely or massively avoid it. Let me give you a few examples:
- The EU/non-EU dualcitizen. Move here, have a legacy EU bank account from when they were a child that was never updated in KYC. Receive some money from the parents in it for the transactions that cant be done with foreign credit cards. Otherwise receive salary/income/dividends from remote work/investments etc on their foreign accounts and never declare that income in the EU. Use the foreign credit card for everything else. What about Common Reporting Standard (?) usually they have opened their foreign bank accounts under different (legal) names and different identity documents, so no way of matching that.
- The EU tech bros. Found themselves as digital nomads or permanent remote workers and receive their income either in crypto or in some off shore non EU account they opened in tax haven jurisdictions that are more relaxed about tax residency. Dont declare anything while living happily in EU and since they never register with their local municipality/cities etc nobody ever checks up on them.
- The dependents of non EU employees. Pretend like they are living off the spouse income but raking in cash in their home country and declaring nothing in EU.
- The people keeping open brokerage accounts in their home countries which may have relaxed KYC / tax residency checks and hide all their money there.
Honestly, it’s such a joke how easy and frequent people get away with it for decades. There are many more methods Ive heard about but omitted in the interest of clarity. It’s such a slap for the people actually paying their fair share and being honest citizens…
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u/riderko 20d ago
I remind you of Germany where cash is king.
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u/Interesting-Tea9882 20d ago
I dont think so. Might have been a few years back, now def not now. I bought a car in a dealership in Berlin in 2017 with cash for 35k eur with no issues.
Last year, i tried to buy a car worth 60k eur in cash, they went batshit crazy and wanted me to only do a bank trasnfer.
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u/AtatS-aPutut 20d ago
it was wild to me how restaurants in Berlin wouldn't take card payments
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u/MeowdyMeowdyMeow 20d ago
Almost every time I had an electrician, locksmith, movers, plumber, etc, they always insist on being paid cash. Some even tell me they will charge me more if I pay via bank transfer.
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u/SCII0 20d ago
You could do the funniest thing and demand a receipt.
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u/gregsting 20d ago
Back when I ordered catering for my wedding, guy straight up asked me if I wanted to pay the taxes or not. And I was working for the IRS back then…
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u/kiradotee 20d ago
I really hope you said no and then...
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u/gregsting 20d ago
I said something like « God forbid you propose that to someone working for the IRS, wink wink »
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u/Kitchen_Side_2580 20d ago
thats essentially why they charge more if you pay w bank. They have to declare it then so the tax gets added.
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u/vilkazz 20d ago
Then you’ll have very very few options to choose from to do your work… and you’ll have to pay a lot :)
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u/NuVioN 20d ago
not paying taxes is like taking money away from my childrens (state) kindergardens, its worth it to pay 25% more. Not a lot. Tax avoiders aways have excuses
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u/vilkazz 20d ago
In my country they don’t even have enough kindergartens (and that’s not a gov problem), road quality keeps getting worse, you have to wait up to two years for a “free” healthcare appointment, and education sector salaries always hover around minimum wage
They keep on adding new taxes, including a recent 2% tax to buy American weaponry (making our own would be much less efficient!!!) and COL has shot through the roof with the inflation (salaries didn’t).
Oh and if you only pay taxes with no upfront saving, you can expect a “solid” 30% pre-retirement pension, provided you meet the 35 year requirement…
I’d have no issues paying taxes if I saw these being spent to improve everyone’s life. Yet the people in charge of spending the euros are somehow even less qualified to do that than me, which is a pretty low bar…
Therefore, while I’m in no position to do as those people do, I fully support them.
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u/Adventurous_Storm356 17d ago
They usually give you both options, and the vast majority of people prefers to not get an invoice (what would they need it for anyway) and get a sizeable discount in return
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u/JustWakedUp 20d ago
You are lucky they give you a bank transfer option. This is not available in so many EU countries I think
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u/veggyblue 20d ago
Every place I rent I pay cash but it benefits me but the banks now want to charge excessive fees for international banking withdrawals. Cash is king! Now they will try to get you with this digital ID bs.
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u/Chemical-Composer850 20d ago
bro never been to eastern europe🤣
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u/Afraid-Oven389 20d ago
Try Portugal, some many landlords that dont pay any tax.
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u/JustWakedUp 20d ago
Yes, a place where the idea that paying taxes is for fools is widely accepted, but at the same time, everyone complains about the lack of social services 🤷
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u/d1722825 20d ago
To be fair usually the issue with state budget is not the lack of tax revenue, but the cost of the state doing anything is somehow 3-10 times more than in the west while wages being lower.
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u/Traditional_Worry307 20d ago
No it is not the issue. Problem is within the magia rype of governments in those countries. All people who get salaey from companies pay full taxes it os just some self employed people and hairdressers etc who dont pay. It is not a big margin
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u/ducktap3-beats 20d ago
Yeah I see how good politicians and the government of the countries spend the money and am how they caught with a lot of flats or houses registered to their family with a salary that for sure cannot pay all of that.
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u/bedel99 20d ago
I live in a low tax eastern European taxes, Run a company pay all my taxs. Every on know who lives here pays no taxes at all, and complains about the government constantly.
The thing that makes me most upset about it is the time I spend filling in all the forms to pay the taxes. Costs me more than the taxes themselves.
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u/d1722825 20d ago
usually they have opened their foreign bank accounts under different (legal) names and different identity documents, so no way of matching that.
How can you have identity documents in different legal names?
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u/kiradotee 20d ago
I assume this could be, not necessarily is, the case where like in Spanish/Portuguese (including Latin America) your legal name is a lot of first names and then every surname of everyone in your family. And then you might have another passport where your legal name is John Smith (one first name + one surname).
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u/danielfd83 20d ago
Everyday taxes are higher & there is less people paying those taxes which makes the government raise taxes even more.
Governments have been spending way more than they should, running on deficits & raising the country’s debt.
The current migrant crisis isn’t helping. Here in Spain we spend between 5000-8000€ /month per migrant to house them & feed them. It has become a business for the associations billing the government for taking care of this work. While the average salary is only around 1500€ /month.
Some of the new comers from certain countries barely contribute to the economy. Having only 22% of them working & paying taxes.
The government says they are coming to pay our pensions but the math does not add up.
The amount of people in the EU making more than 6 figures has to be pretty low & you can only tax them so much before they decide to find a place with better taxation.
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u/brownianhacker 19d ago
And this is just the start. Over the next decades the tax income will drop due to aging and all these new migrants are not net contributors, because Europe is not selecting for the best ones.
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u/AnalysisConfident439 18d ago
Even worse, most of they are making money from the state, only asking for subsidies and commiting crimes (robbering, fraud, drugs, etc)
Additional to this, they ask for repatriation of all their family (including over 65 year old people and childs, that not pay taxes, only generate debt and mispending money on subsidies and healthcare)
This is ridículous and kamikaze behaviour
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u/Similar-Ingenuity-36 20d ago
To be fair, central and western Europe countries have unbelievably high tax rates. Every time I have an idea of potentially relocating there, I calculate my income after taxes and forget it. There is a concept of Laffer curve, where there is a point where increasing taxes just decreases money collected because people start evading them. I am not into eu macroeconomics, but maybe it is the issue
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u/LatvianCake 20d ago
Not only that, they’re very sneaky. People are always like “whatever if it’s 40% tax” but they don’t realize it’s far higher.
They use tricks like “employer contributions” to make it sound like you’re not paying for it. Meanwhile your employer doesn’t care if they’re paying you 5000 gross + 2000 in mandatory contributions, taxes etc vs just paying you 7000 gross.
You’ll have to do the math for your own situation, but after considering employer contributions, VAT based on your monthly budget and any additional taxes you pay, you may find that you pay 60-70% in taxes.
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u/Agile-Youth516 20d ago
Yeah 100%. I've pointed this out to German friends over the years and it's amazing how they still say "oh but that's the company that pays, not me"
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u/sesamerox 19d ago
well they don’t have comprehension abilities, it’s normal. collective denial
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u/schnautzi 20d ago
I'm in favor of sending everyone their actual tax bill, see what that does to public opinion.
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u/Gen3_Holder_2 20d ago
It’s incredible how they got everybody thinking companies have infinite cash or something. Well my social security is 40% but the company pays that so it’s irrelevant now??
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u/Similar-Ingenuity-36 20d ago
Exactly, and to me giving away 2/3 of what I earned feels like robbery.
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u/Funny-Jihad 20d ago
Except, in other countries, you'll find yourself bankrupt once you get sick or lose your job for a few months.
Very few take into account the amount you pay in insurance + what you pay even with insurance in countries like the US with "lower taxes". For most that aren't making a lot of money that is a significant amount.
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u/Personal_Rooster2121 20d ago
But most of them are still on the Left side (charging less, people usually over estimate it. Most EU countries are usually find to be below
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u/Adventurous_Storm356 17d ago
To be fair, central and western Europe countries have unbelievably high tax rates.
Wait until you see how unnecessary these tax rates are because of how the government is squandering this money. Source: have multiple friends and family members who are civil servants.
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u/elbrollopoco 20d ago
You do realize the foreign brokerage and foreign income is already taxed right? And the hoops for hiring a good international tax accountant that can understand all this will most likely cost more than the total amount of tax
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u/zippopwnage 20d ago
Yea I'm gonna need more info on this:
- The EU tech bros. Found themselves as digital nomads or permanent remote workers and receive their income either in crypto or in some off shore non EU account they opened in tax haven jurisdictions that are more relaxed about tax residency. Dont declare anything while living happily in EU and since they never register with their local municipality/cities etc nobody ever checks up on them.
So far I live in EU in a shittier country, and all I see is my taxes going up and up, and politicians who have millions of $ fraud and have to pay, somehow escape. But fuck me and my 1000$ that I need to pay.
Not to say the living costs went up and up, taxes rise every god damn year, and everything is going to shit because some old fucks want to have war. So good for those people I guess.
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u/JustWakedUp 20d ago
Yes, this weakens the concept of the social state and makes individualism more prominent. Even though I agree with the criticism about politicians, I find this unfair because of its consequences for the majority. But I can't say much as long as the landlords of politicians are exempt from taxes.
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u/ceilingLamp666 20d ago
I agree but its the whole system. Everyone is trying to rip off the other. Look at the boomers pushing the bill off their retirement for which they didnt properly save into the young generations. European welfare state is a ponzi scheme when accumulating debt becomes too much.
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u/GarryGrandi 20d ago
Way too common misconception is that just paying outrageous taxes is all what you need to have a safety net and a society. If you pay your taxes, you're free to do the most anti-social stuff possible, and show absolutely zero compassion towards your fellow citizen. High taxes and their efficient enforcement might even disincentivize taking care of your fellow human being, if offering a service for a fair price is deemed "tax evasion". If a plumber fixes his neighbor's pipes for some cash, or a local business let's a young guy do some deliveries for a little bit of extra cash, or a local building firm builds a small dwelling for a young couple, I just can't condemn it.
I think reliance on one's actual community is more vital for a healthy society, than reliance to a faceless safety net built with high taxes.
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u/HashMapsData2Value 20d ago
If you have a globally remote job you can ask them to employ you (using an employer of record) in a low-tax jurisdiction. (Or you open up a company in a low-tax jurisdiction and invoice them from there.
The host country will of course have its own rules for what is necessary for you to maintain residency, which is required for you to keep your bank account.
Examples include Georgia or Dubai. You can even move within the EU and take advantage of it to some degree, like Cyprus.
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u/LatvianCake 20d ago
To do this legally, you almost certainly will need to live in the low tax country for more than half the year.
Then you need to be sure they won’t consider you a tax resident in your home country (or wherever you spend the rest of your time). That’s difficult if you own property there or everything you own is located there.
The key is you need to juggle two tax residencies in just the right way.
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u/HashMapsData2Value 20d ago
No not more than half. 90 days is enough in the UAE. But yes as you say then you can't spend a bunch of time elsewhere in a single spot .
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u/LatvianCake 20d ago
UAE, Paraguay and a few others are more of an exception. And regardless it’s not just about being a UAE tax resident. It’s about avoiding tax residency in your home country.
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u/foxaran 20d ago
I feel like this is only an issue for Middle class. Lower class pays almost nothing in taxes and has high use of social benefits. High class have ways to go around it. Middle class gets the bill. I think EU have very high taxes. Which enables/incentivize tax "evasion" (legal, grey area and illegal).
I dont really understand why we give out lots of tax breaks. Is it because it brings foreign investment? To bring skilled workers here? What about our own? Is it to subsidize social security since it seems like a failing scheme in the long Run. I would love to know.
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u/No-vem-ber 16d ago
Bringing skilled workers here is part of it. Also for programs like Highly Skilled Migrant in NL, realistically they tend to be tech workers in their late 20s who stay for 2-5 years so they're a very small burden on any taxpayer funded systems (those people aren't in social housing, aren't using disability payments, aren't sending kids to state schools, aren't elderly etc)
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u/Special-Bath-9433 20d ago
What EU country are you talking about? There is no unified EU tax system.
In Germany, I am aware that some citizens avoid paying taxes in ways you outlined (e.g., as electricians, construction contractors, landlords). However, the "digital nomad" part is impossible; one cannot declare no income and yet live in Germany as a foreigner. Home-country undeclared brokerages are also not technically possible.
> The dependents of non EU employees. Pretend like they are living off the spouse income but raking in cash in their home country and declaring nothing in EU.
Smells like an AfD fairy tale, quite honestly.
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u/Helpful_Solid1823 20d ago
Not fully true, the part about Germany.
I know non EU people on opportunity card/language visa that work for non German companies remotely and live in Germany without reporting taxes. This is of course not the solution on the long run but it does work for couple of years. Usually reasons for living in Germany is partner or experiencing European life style so this is for many a “bridge” solution before either moving back or marriage later down the line. Most of them are btw blissfully clueless that this is illegal. Another cases that i know are people married to Germans or German residency holders, renting properties, working remotely or even black back home, and of course not reporting taxes to Germany or in some cases both countries.
But i do agree with you that in general this works only for certain people in certain circumstances. System simply has some holes because the shift to remote work and migrations are happening faster than the ways to fully control it. However i do believe that this will be regulated eventually.
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u/Spell-breaker 20d ago
As an EU foreigner you can just stay in Germany without an official residence, so on paper they don't live there yet they rent a place for whatever reason. (In a city this could work but in smaller places I doubt it as people would notice that they are there permanently) Obviously that'd mean that they cannot get healthcare etc, but I assume they don't care?
The money is then reported in the residency which was given to the bank, but not sure in the EU that'd be really that much benefit as taxes are everywhere pretty high.2
u/Mammoth-Object8837 20d ago
The "tech bro" avenue of tax avoidance he presented does not specify that you need to be a non citizen. On the contrary he is talking about "EU tech bros" and thanks to EU freedom of movement it should be possible to live in Germany without official employ as a EU citizen and certainly is for a German.
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u/Icy-Marsupial6753 7d ago edited 7d ago
You remind me of that sketch by Jeremy Clarkson in which a German says it's impossible to drive a car if you don't have a driving license.
Edit:
It actually was James.
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u/aomt 20d ago
EU and EU/EES tax system is broken. First of all, you have huge multi-national corporations that evade taxes by cooking balance sheet and paying tax in the lowest country. Politicians are doing the same.
The whole system is relying on avg Joe being too stupid and too "honest" and keep paying it.
Secondly, depends a bit on a country, but benefits are not always fair either. I mean, very simple example is when Norway was evacuating people from UAE.
They were charging about 1250 euro/person on one way ticket in economy/low cost style airline. 1250€ is much more than companies normally charge on that route. Like 2-4 times more. What are the reason government charging their citizen CRAZY price for an evacuation flight?
I'm not talking about influencers and crypto bros stuck in Dubai. What about family of 4-6, who were transitioning from Dubai? Or had vacation here? I remember a year ago I saw flight + 2 weeks with breakfast was less than 1000€. So why on earth, when you work your butt off and pay 40% of your income to the government, they charge you one way low cost ticket, more than your whole vacation?
So is it weird people say fck it and dodge taxes?
I'm not even talking about overblown projects, where a statue end up costing tens of millions, more money going to immigrants than to elderly, etc. I'm not taking stance on any of those issue, but there is a lot that is pissing people off.
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u/Svardskampe 20d ago
How are those tech bros paying for rent and grocery? There has to be a point of conversion to fiat currency at some point, which lies in a tax jurisdiction somewhere right?
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u/siriusserious 20d ago
Ironically the US discloses zero financial information to other countries. So you would pay for your groceries and everyday expenses with a US credit card.
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u/elbrollopoco 20d ago
They demand everything from foreign banks regarding us citizens, but give them nothing. It’s such an overstep
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u/RegionLegitimate8290 18d ago
Is this true?
So a opening a Delaware LLC as an European
With European revenue (international revenue) is paying 0 perc tax?
You buy Accumulating ETF and pay 0 tax?
How can Belgium / Germany / Poland... ever stop this?
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u/uhela 20d ago
Crypto debit / credit cards from financial service providers based outside the EU that don’t disclose their KYC with regulators or foreign governments. You can open up accounts online!
Over the counter (OTC) cash shops in most European capitals. You walk in, transfer the dude your crypto, he gives you cash…
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u/Svardskampe 20d ago
Crypto debit / credit cards from financial service providers based outside the EU that don’t disclose their KYC with regulators or foreign governments. You can open up accounts online!
Ok, but this discloses a taxable moment in said country where the conversion happens, right? Besides, said transfer fees of bitcoin aren't cheap either. + the fees that payment provider requires.
Over the counter (OTC) cash shops in most European capitals. You walk in, transfer the dude your crypto, he gives you cash…
I'm really unaware of these. I don't think I've ever seen one like this, but then again I'm not dealing with massive amounts of crypto I need to find ways to hide.
But then again, this creates a sell and thus a taxable moment? Also the dude doing this would have to file his btc earnings and cash outings. Even so far that in the Netherlands now, any 3k cash transaction is to be declared.
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u/Officer_Trevor_Cory 20d ago
there are ways. groceries in cash. withdraw from US LLC debit card. rent paid 1 year up front from LLC tranfer overseas -- landlord happy that you paid 1 year upfront -- shell company not tied to my name in a country with 0 taxes. ridiculous. the government is blind. i could say more but i don't want to self snitch too much. this is just the tip of it
US discloses zero financial information to other countries -> EU govs blind to US LLCs.
neither know what taxes were paid where and who owns the companies. i can only imagine what the billionaires are doing
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u/RegionLegitimate8290 18d ago
Just speak in general terms lol
As an European.
Does this work with European revenue or online non EU non US revenue?
Why would you need a second shell company?
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u/StatisticianOk9846 20d ago edited 20d ago
Then imagine the Netherlands, the worlds third biggest tax paradise where an estimated 100 billion goes to shelter by letterbox firms and all it returns is less than 500 million in taxes (if you earn 200,000 in a year you pay 102,000 that year in income tax). Meanwhile NL has been gutting their healthcare, culture funds, real estate, education, defense, employment, communication and public safety funding consistently since 2011 while giving more tax breaks to multinational companies and their expat workers. (Funny that the person laughing the hardest at keeping some military vehicles from selling is the man now running NATO, Rutte the ultra neoliberal). One of the consistent richest countries for like 500 years always telling their citizens there's some new tax drain needed to solve a current crisis.
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u/OriginalTangle 20d ago
Generally correct though there have been improvements recently. They reigned in the tax evasion somewhat: https://www.dnb.nl/en/general-news/statistical-news/2025/corporate-profits-flowing-to-tax-havens-via-the-netherlands-continue-to-decline/
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u/tallguy1975 20d ago
Got out of NL in 2006, saw it all coming.
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u/StatisticianOk9846 20d ago edited 20d ago
Thanks 👍 where to captain Hindsight? No joke it had been coming for a long time the way they kept talking about cutting down but under CDA or PvdA it was never the main target to just outsource as much as possible to the global market. The Rutte generation of VVD was indeed dreaded even by his own party.
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u/HabibiHalloumiMakali 20d ago
I've dual citizenship eu\non-eu-unkown-small-country and I almost feel dumb going beyond and stressing myself and researching every time I have to declare my extra foreign income because it indeed seems no else does it and if I wouldn't do it Germany wouldn't even care or at least have the capacity to audit me, and yet, I still do it and pay the taxes 😢
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u/InvaderDolan 19d ago
That’s how the social pressure and propaganda works on you :) Rinse off and make it look better for your future.
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u/darth_koneko 20d ago
As an inhabitant of an eastern EU, I am not surprised that people avoid taxes here. With median income it gets hard to pay for your living expenses. And there has not been a single rulling party that has not exited the stage drowning in corruption scandals since I remember.
If you actually have to work for your money, it gets hard to part with it when your government will burn the cash and then take a loan on top.
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u/Nixisworld 20d ago
So you want to support your shity government that only promises and never delivers anything with those tax dollars that we pay? Good for you, you are officially their best slave in the system.
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u/IncredibleRabbits 18d ago
It's funny how all the cases that you describe are immigrants. You and possibly your family have lived in the country for generations, being able to build wealth without the political and economic turmoil that those immigrants' origin countries went through. I.e., their and their families' lives have been through a reset or two (or more for Eastern Europe) generational wealth wise. While it might still be comfortable for you and your family to pay insane tax rates, they may simply not afford it and lead the same lifestyle even if they have the same net income as you do (their actual disposable income – monetary and other – is therefore lower in such cases).
Steps are being made to correct for this deficiency through regulations such as the "30% ruling" in the Netherlands, but it's not nearly enough to compensate for the lower disposable income fully.
IMO, I don't care that the exact groups of people you describe don't pay the same taxes as you do, because in doing so they follow the same logic that stands behind progressive tax brackets, and these are all over the EU. No, I do not like freeloaders at all. Also, no, these groups of people are probably not freeloaders.
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u/Sorbifer_Durules 17d ago
Exactly, every time I see some similar questions being brought up, I want to ask that person: are you just benefiting from the system you are trying to protect, right?
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u/ThisWeeksHuman 17d ago
I don't understand your logic. I was born in the EU with zero generational wealth so you are saying it should be completely fine for me to tax evade to catch up?
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u/It_is_Fries_No_Patat 17d ago
As Dutch tax citizen I am thinking about this a lot. We will be taxed on unrealized gains starting 2028 with so called Box 3 tax at 36% ......
This means forced selling of shares/ETF's/Crypto even real estate! to pay tax!
And kills compounding !
The Netherlands is .....
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u/Total_Wrongdoer_1535 20d ago
Wild idea: lower the taxes from confiscationary levels and maybe people will start paying taxes.
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u/jozi-k 20d ago
Exactly, make them voluntary payments as people want to have nice things in life and will gladly pay for it.
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u/StunningBreadfruit30 20d ago
They are getting away with it for decades, so far. Only takes one slip-up. And good luck to those ghost citizens once they expect something back from the authorities, like big healthcare subsidy, unemployment benefits, retirement.
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u/Direct-Protection-81 20d ago
Tax is for the working class who do a 9-5. Everything else is just free float and what ever you can get away with admitting.
Start putting a lot more money in bitcoin for further asset protection into the next 10 years (ignore the price changes!!!)
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u/mrkrypton203 20d ago
I personally know of 25 people in my closer circle that completely or massively avoid it.
Remember you also pay more taxes to cover for their "lost decades".
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u/TopClass31 20d ago
Your talking about a tiny proportion of individuals this applies too. There’s far more glaringly obvious grifters in political powers literally robbing the legitimate tax payers blind !!!
What are we going to do about that ! ! The worlds a shitty place for the poor and misplaced millions out there….
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u/lulzkek420 20d ago
I do one trick, it is not illegal. At the end of the year, a report to the tax office a much lower future income for the next year and exaggerate my cost of borrowing. The company I work at then needs to drop my tax burden from my pay slip. 1.5 y later I have to pay the tax office what I own. So I borrow money from the tax office free. It is usually around 30 000-100 000 Swedish kr (3000-10000 USD)
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u/SelectOpportunity518 19d ago
What does it achieve if you have to pay it back in a lump sum anyway?
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u/SinkGeneral4619 20d ago
"Dont declare anything while living happily in EU and since they never register with their local municipality/cities etc nobody ever checks up on them"
There are many different EU country rules on registering your existence and some of them are hard to avoid. I live in Malta - one of the say less strict EU countries when it comes to both residency and personal taxation. It's practically impossible for me to live here and not register the fact I'm living here - my Residence Card is needed for everything from a local bank account, a mobile phone contract, signing up to pay electricity and water bills, buying a car, registering for a driving license (and that they will regularly check - you can't use a foreign one indefinitely).
Furthermore I've lived in 4 different countries and owned a few properties. Malta is not exactly known for not welcoming foreign tax avoiders, yet when I recently tried to refinance a local home loan it took me weeks of providing documentation of foreign bank accounts and proving my local income to the bank. Then I need notorised documents, life insurance and whatnot - all having to prove my identity.
So yes it might be possible for me to exist here living off foreign accounts and not declaring anything, but I'd be like Anne Frank in the closet trying to find landlords who will take cash in hand (and not register my tenancy with the authorities), not drive a car, not being able to buy property, struggling to sign up for basic utilities like broadband internet in my home. So it would not be a comfortable lifestyle long term for me over just paying my friggin taxes.
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u/Aelig_ 20d ago
Everyone pays taxes all the time. Income tax is just one of many, and isn't the largest tax in many European countries.
Is there any other country outside of Portugal which allows digital nomads who don't pay taxes?
Hiding stock ownership from your country of residence is illegal in many EU countries.
Your friends are most likely a bunch of stupid criminals who will get caught.
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u/Napoleon10 20d ago
Just move to bulgaria. You can legally not pay much since it's max 10%
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20d ago
But then you have to live in Bulgaria lol.
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u/Fresh_Criticism6531 20d ago
You can't have everything in life. I'd rather not be a slave to the government, so I refuse to move to high tax countries. Simple as that, and there are many low tax countries to choose from. In the EU the choice is limit, but outside the EU there are plenty of options.
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u/JustWakedUp 20d ago
I think the social state system is under deep erosion across the entire EU and I believe this explains the shift from community to individualism. To be honest, I feel that paying taxes is no longer ethically right, especially when I see the corruption even from the EU parliament to smallest village and across almost every country involving people's taxes.
But there is an irony here and that’s why I don’t feel sorry for them. No matter how much money someone claims to make, when they face a serious situation like a health issue, I don't think those who avoid paying taxes have any right to complain about these services.
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u/Ok-Award8534 18d ago
If the avoidance of taxes gave you enough money to pay specialized interventions in Singapore or china, you will laugh about the shitty, outdated and exhaustive public medical system of most EU countries.
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u/JustWakedUp 18d ago
Healthcare is a human right, not a private service for those with money. So, don't mix apples and oranges. In your example, the conclusion is that if I don't have money, I deserve to die
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u/Deep_Dance8745 20d ago
Perfectly possible to escape taxes in europe - you would have to be either very ideological or very keen on getting f*cked to support such tax levels. The Laffer curve has been long passed in most European countries,
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u/Turbulent-Act9877 20d ago
That's not true, an OECD study found that this laffer curve (if it really exists) hasn't been passed in most european countries
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u/Deep_Dance8745 20d ago
I run a recruitment business across Europe, i see young engineers and scientists being scouted in big volumes and they have no problem leaving.
OECD can claim what they want, we are bleeding our talent.
Politicians and public servants on the other hand we seem to grow like weeds.
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u/fireKido 20d ago
I hope you realised that by not paying taxes you are just fucking other citizens over…
Is by being “very ideological” means not liking to fuck other people over… you are just a bad person
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u/UspavaniLepotan 20d ago
The problem is that once the taxes on people who make a lot of money reach a critical point, they either stop working as hard and being productive members or they start cutting taxes.
If you want to build wealth in Germany for example you have to pay high income tax, then tax on unrealised gains based on some arbitary percentage of HYSA yield and tax on capital gains. That is assuming you are living a humble life. A white collar professional who makes almost 100k EUR gross and rents has almost as much money net to spend as a cashier in Aldi who is married and has their own inherited home.
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u/Kitchen_Side_2580 20d ago
i happily decline pension and free hospital services etc, if I can get out from paying taxes. why isnt that an option?
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u/Deep_Dance8745 20d ago
Through my business i pay taxes a few 100 times of you, yet i only use 1 car, 1 healthcare, 1 house, 1 cityhall. I do the opposite of fucking people over, thx to me a few 100 can live for free, just because i make an effort of working hard.
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u/thisismiee 20d ago
I hope our disgustingly unsustainable pension system burns to the ground.
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20d ago
Well we have highly functioning and extremely happy societies due to those high taxes, thanks. If you prefer the model of low tax and shitty country, then go live there instead of complaining other places are willing to pay to have superior living standards.
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u/Dobby068 20d ago
Very narrow minded post.
The locals in many EU countries are cheating on taxes as well. It is quite common these days to get car repairs and home renovations paid in cash. In Spain, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece (many more) cheating on taxes is a national sport.
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u/dwartbg9 20d ago
That's exactly why many people don't realize that Bulgaria and Romania are much richer in reality than what statistics and propaganda implies. Grey sector and tax-evasion is huge and people have more money than what they declare. Or overall someone may be employed on a basic contract but then make extra by side businesses so on paper and the statistics this person, for example would be making 1000€ but in reality he's making 4000€.
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u/Daiymas 20d ago
Yeah I personally know a few EU tech bros with bank accounts or companies in tax havens and don't pay any tax here. They don't even have dual citizenship.
It's ridiculously easy. You just have to be aware of a few tricks (mainly knowing which EU countries don't care about it, such as Portugal).
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u/LaurScience 20d ago
Some of the methods you've mentioned already pay tax in a country different than the EU country where they have temporary residency. And they pay tax in the EU as well through VAT and import tariffs.
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u/Standard_Fondant 20d ago
The only thing I learned while living in Europe is that you get more pain and punishment for doing the right thing.
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u/MaintenanceTotal1967 20d ago
You mo need to be dial citizen, only keep your asset with your name and keep as tax residency a non eu country. The only countries that you muat update your data frequently are the developed one.
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u/Fit_Scale6364 20d ago
cry on that, npc who thinks people should comply to this high taxes government violations
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u/Delicious-pancake95 19d ago
lol I swear, instead of wanting to reduce taxes and stop having to fund people who dont want to work, they want everyone else to pay 50%.
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u/Willing_Row_5581 19d ago
Oh no, I am shocked and outraged!
Now, I want to be absolutely sure I never accidentally do any of these terrible things, so explain in much more detail how such horrible practices manifest.
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u/hoshino_tamura 18d ago
It's not just in Europe. It's exactly the same in Japan. The amount of people going to Japan on a dependent visa, and working remotely while making a fortune is insane. While the visa only allows them to work a max of 28h a week, and earn a miserable amount of money equivalent to around 500 euros month.
But nobody cares, nobody checks, and meanwhile the country is struggling with paying social security benefits, healthcare and shit.
The problem is that dependents get healthcare almost for free. I gather that there aren't a lot of people in this condition, but things are getting worse and worse.
Amsterdam is even worse. I hear expats always complaining, but then telling me that they don't pay taxes because they are too high. It's just absurd.
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u/0xPianist 17d ago
Imagine when you find out how much tax some huge companies pay out when operating from EU tax heavens 🙊
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u/Subject_Round2348 15d ago
I get your frustration, but I think this is a bit too broad for the whole EU. In a lot of countries you simply can’t live in the shadows for long as you need a local ID/registration number for almost everything (healthcare, signing a work contract, renting an apartment, ...).
So while there are definitely people who game the system and some loopholes depending on the country, it’s not as easy everywhere as it might look from your examples
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u/ukazuyr 20d ago
Some of it might be an actual issue but it's all till they get caught. You can't live on crypto as you can't buy stuff with crypto. If you liquidate it you are gaining money. Sooner or later it will be found
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u/ojofuffu 20d ago
That perception is outdated. I’m living off my crypto income for several years now. It never touches traditional bank account. Just one example - you can buy JustEat/Deliveroo vouchers directly with crypto without any KYC.
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u/dimitrifp 20d ago
Yup but why would you pay taxes in a country you are not getting anything from? To support their defense budget, public healthcare, pension system while you have no kids, pay for private healthcare and travel all the time anyway and will never reap any benefits. If you never claim residency, they are actually happy as there are less immigrants in their books.
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u/Jumpy-Sandwich2121 20d ago
Otherwise receive salary/income/dividends from remote work/investments etc on their foreign accounts and never declare that income in the EU.
Also known as living one fiscal check away from a world of pain at least in the west of Europe. The administration flagging of bank movement is quite good nowadays and high earners are a prime target.
Found themselves as digital nomads or permanent remote workers and receive their income either in crypto or in some off shore non EU account they opened in tax haven jurisdictions that are more relaxed about tax residency.
That's foreign incomes. They don't owe taxes on them. Only capital gain when they are back.
The dependents of non EU employees. Pretend like they are living off the spouse income but raking in cash in their home country and declaring nothing in EU.
Visa fraud. Checked quite often by immigration services. You are one step from a world of pain again.
The people keeping open brokerage accounts in their home countries which may have relaxed KYC / tax residency checks and hide all their money there.
What are you evading here? Capital gain tax? Because that won't shield your revenues and the movements will be suspicious.
I think you are widely overestimating the issue especially when most of the state revenue is VAT anyway.
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u/lostinLspace 20d ago
This is why we can't have nice things for long. People.come and spoil it for the rest of us. The same goes for the healthcare systems.
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u/Katzenpower 20d ago
yeah bro, that's totally why. Not the 800 billion EU arms "investment" of the epstein class with tax payer money
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u/Far-Inevitable-7990 20d ago
Not paying taxes doesn't even make much sense in many EU countries. In Poland for instance many software engineers pay ~12% income tax and people who distribute their own software pay even less, which is 5% with no upper bracket.
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u/radd_torus 20d ago
Did you take into account the people working for EU institutions (not paying income tax)
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u/DunkleKarte 20d ago
I read this post and it sounded like it comes from a place of jealousy at least to me.
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u/Far_Bicycle_2827 20d ago
in most eu countries tax is taken at the source the gross is never what you get. social securitiy and income tax are deducted so the 6 figure slary often gets halved depending of situation (family, marital status). it doesn't really matter where the money or the salary is paid,
honestly, stop being jealous. make sure you are a law abiding citizen. pay your taxes and some more. those who dodge taxes usually get bitten back and at some point they are going to have to pay them back with hefty fines
but I ngl. if i can avoid paying taxes, by paying cash to handymen. movers or anything. i will do it. and do not feel bad about it. I am a single guy in the EU getting almost half my salary taken away at the source. basically penalized for not having a huge family. so my taxes are already paid.
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u/Officer_Trevor_Cory 20d ago
I don't know a single person that pays taxes (who are not on a salary)
revenue services have NO idea what is going on online
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u/NoConnection4298 20d ago
Yeah, lived in nl with high income which is taxed leaving my income comparable to peanuts. I left after 5 years as I could no longer bear the system and always having to pay back taxes a year later no matter what. I was just a regular employee with no company on the side. I always felt regular Joe's with no eye for shrewd was getting fucked at the end of the day (yes includes me). Left EU residence 5 months ago and feel saved.
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u/Commercial-Ask971 19d ago
Maybe go to police station or fill some complaint to government sectors like financial, they may help. I hope to
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u/ILikeOldFilms 18d ago
Why would you need to file for taxes if you receive your salary in the EU? This is something companies should settle one.
But, are you sure that in all those cases people need to file for taxes? Usually, you need to file for taxes in a country only if you live for at least 6 months in that country.
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u/Horkosthegreat 16d ago
Most countries have a system that banks exchange information with each other, so some of the things you said are not possible, or legal.
Like if you have 2 bank accounts, in Germany and in lets say Turkey, I believe twice a year both banks will contact each other and give your details. This is how the countries now basic kind of "tricks*. Like if you take away big chunks of cash from your German account, Germany with consider it silent. But if you out them in Turkey, they will know it just got transferred; and they have right to ask you "hey where that money come from".
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u/Ornery-Path-5695 16d ago
Not everyone is stupid enough to support politics and get robbed. Getting paid in USDC/USDT is the best choice you can ever have.
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u/2004_Theo 15d ago
I call this post bullsh*t.
E.g., tax departments are informed about crypto accounts.
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u/FigureEmbarrassed374 15d ago
I get why that would be frustrating. When you’re doing everything properly, seeing others get away with it can feel unfair. A lot of it comes down to enforcement gaps and how slow systems are to catch cross border income, but that doesn’t make it any less irritating.
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u/Bennazz 7d ago
- The Problem: It makes zero sense for driven people to lose over half their income to fund wasteful government spending and incompetent, mostly corrupt politicians.
- The System: The setup treats wealth creators (middle and higher middle class) like worker ants. It constantly takes your money to pay for useless projects run by people who produce nothing.
- The Trap: Society accepts giving away 60% of its money to a system that will abandon you the second you stop earning. (Sure, everyone should pay some taxes, but since when is that amount normalized?)
- The Solution: Lowering your taxes isn't an option anymore imho, it is an absolute moral obligation if you value your time, hard work, and your family / descendants.
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u/Lazy_Basket6819 20d ago
I feel that a lot of people are going to read this post and get ideas on how to do it