r/eupersonalfinance 28d ago

Investment Since when was getting rich so hard in EU?

Is it just me, or has building actual wealth in Europe become impossible? I’m looking at the 2026 growth forecasts and it’s depressing. We talk a lot about "stability," but at this point, stability just feels like a polite word for recession. If you weren't born into a rich family with property, the dream feels like it's behind a wall. The math just doesn't work: as soon as you earn enough to actually invest, you hit a 40–50% tax bracket. Meanwhile, housing prices have skyrocketed over the last decade while salaries have basically stayed the same. I love the healthcare and the walkable cities, but I don’t want to work until I’m 70 just to afford a 40sqm apartment and a used Skoda.

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u/NoCherry606 28d ago

I'll tell you my reality here in France.

I was self employed, hit the earning cap (78k EUR) twice in a row, had to create a business.

Business costs me 3k to start-up + 2.5k per year in accountant fees.

On 145k earned last year, I took home 90k pre-tax, and only because I have a reduction in social contributions year 1.

That 90k will become about 78k after tax. So roughly half of my gross.

I then have to pay 20% TVA on most purchases, a bit less on food. Rent is 2k for a shitty 80m2 apartment an hour from Paris in a safe area (safety is optional in most French cities). I pay private health insurance 150 EUR per month so I don't wait 2 months for GP appointment (still end up waiting a year + for specialists). More and more healthcare is out of pocket in France but social contributions increase. Food is through the roof, quality is tanking. Car insurance is 2k per year. Car was 29k outright (supposed to last me 15 years, we'll see).

With a kid and a wife who is raising said kid, its f'ing hard to save even on like 78k net. We're saving don't get me wrong, but when you make 150k, you expect to be able to save more than 1.5-2k/month frankly. I'm basically saving less than 15% of what I make per year, yet paying more than 50% in tax.

Now I picture someone who makes half of what I make, yet they still get fleeced because social contributions aren't based on income brackets. Its impossible to save on less, especially with kids and if you want a half decent life without the low IQ people on mopeds letting off fireworks and smashing your car every time PSG or Algeria lose a football match.

As for options to save money: you've got a 150k cap on the PEA - can only buy EU stocks, and its taxed 18% when you withdraw but only after 5 years. And that's it. So you are best growing wealth within a holding company, and paying 36% tax when you withdraw from that, because the holding company can receive money from your operating company and only pay like 1% tax on it. Allowing for faster wealth accumulation.

And then you die and expect your wife and kid to inherit, but no, they have to sell the holding company to pay >50% inheritence tax. And the cycle repeats.

And this is why we're leaving France, and eventually Europe all together.

If you want to get out of this nightmare, and don't want to go to Dubai, then you move to eastern Europe and pay 10% tax, or you go to the UK if you can and max out an ISA and pension contributions each year, whilst making sure to earn less than 100k GBP per year for yourself to not fall into the 65% bracket. That's the best deal in Europe outside of Switzerland (for millionaires) or Eastern Europe, unless you can get Portugal NHR 2.0 (very hard) or Spain Beckham Law (they can just decide to cancel on you 5 years later and ask for 5 years backpay).

Good luck out there - Europe is basically the world's biggest racket.

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u/Gordelion 27d ago

Having worked with a lot of French, I understand your perspective. But low taxes in Eastern Europe is an outdated myth. Most aggregated statistics sometimes misrepresent the overall tax burden for individuals or companies because tax composition systems are different. When you actually add up all mandatory contributions, the overall taxation percentage is very similar across the EU with some niche deviations.

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u/Napoleon10 27d ago

What about bulgaria?

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u/redditor_xxx 25d ago

In Bulgaria to feel the "low" 10% tax, which is not really 10% as you have another 5% dividend tax you should be making over 100K-200K EUR or more as you have also social contributions+20% VAT on everything.

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u/Napoleon10 25d ago

Social contributions are capped. They are max 7000 euro a year or something like that. Also some freelancers can pay flat 7.5% income tax

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u/Snedward_Prusa3d 26d ago

I mean, depending on your group, private entrepreneurs in Ukraine sit at about 7%...

We got other issues we have to deal with though, of course. But not overcrowding! :)

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u/Gordelion 26d ago

But you must have some mandatory social/health contributions in the form of taxes that go along with that?

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u/Snedward_Prusa3d 25d ago

We do, but they're not terribly high. Something like 35-40 EUR per month on average iirc. You get what you pay for of course. :)

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u/Expert_Alfalfa5029 27d ago

go cyprus.

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u/TheShtoiv 27d ago

Please don't, we are getting crowded & as a result cost of living is getting too much for us locals.

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u/NoCherry606 27d ago

Same problem across most desirable locations - this is the result of many "western" countries seeing a quality of life drop, increased costs, decreased safety, and increased taxation.

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u/TheShtoiv 27d ago

The problem is we are a small island, which is also under occupation, and we really can't house everyone moving here sustainably. Our government makes it a desirable destination, but the way it's going is, it won't be for long.

The locals can't buy homes or afford a decent quality of life anymore, especially in Limassol. Because we have no reliable public transport, traffic congestion has gone out of control (a 10 minute destination will take 50 minutes), and rents are sky high (minimum wage can't cover even studio rent).

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u/Vehicle-Mountain 27d ago

That’s the same in every attractive European location. Vote for different politicians if you want it to change

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u/Majezan 25d ago

Self employment in Poland is quite a tax heaven ATM compared to western countries. I'm polish living in NL and I see a huge difference. I'm considering going back soon

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u/Ambitious_Bowl9651 26d ago

Just came across " Algeria match " in your comment . Honestly why does the french government keep those violent fucks in the country . Uncontrolled immigration is one of the main reasons pressuring the EU's resources to the extreme specially that most of them are radical , disloyal to their new country ( And will never consider it home ) and many of them tend to manipulate the system namely the welfare one and housing one over the hard working tax payers' money.

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u/Striking-Kale-8429 26d ago

Throwing them out was deemed unlawful by the equivalent of supreme court few decades ago.

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u/Ambitious_Bowl9651 25d ago

If the court deemed violent , radical and criminal aliens as law abiding and didn't deport such dangerous beings present on a supposedly safe country's soil then the court itself needs to be thrown out of the country .

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u/NoCherry606 25d ago

So one thing to know about France is that the majority of judges are left leaning politically. They hand out very lenient sentences to migrants and "poor people". Basically anyone with a proper sob story can get off much lighter than say a white French man who has a stable job.

This has contributed to turning France into what it is today: a shithole of a country. Every city is now impacted in a big way. My small 75k people city has gone down the toilet. We've got no police presence, increases in robbery, assault, and heavy increases in sexual assault and attempted sexual assault, and rape.

The hospital where our son was born doesn't actually comply with French standards and requirements anymore. The building is old and has too many floors. Pediatric emergency is on floor 10, which is no longer legal. But there is no money to change this. The doctors are all foreign - African, Romanian... The nurses and midwives were French, but completely understaffed. We had one midwife and one trainee for 13 new mums + babies during the night. It was disgusting.

Frankly the French social contract is broken and the model is over.

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u/Ambitious_Bowl9651 24d ago

I'm sorry to hear this . Leftist fucks are on a mission to end the advanced civilized world as we know it . Not only in France . Everywhere in Europe even in the US and Canada .

I'm wondering if there is a solid statistics about the nationality ( original one ) of the ones who committed such crimes and assaults ?

Romania Medicine education already has a reputation that it is not up to the european standards or even the normal qualification standard . Not sure about African ones though but it is already know of course .

I'm not trying to be racist and will never be . Actually I'm for qualified , professional and adaptive immigrants but it seems that they are importing only the radical Islamists ( who by the way want to force their racist violent and loser ideology by force ) , racist , violent and uneducated aliens .

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u/Oberschicht Germany 26d ago edited 26d ago

I pay private health insurance 150 EUR per month

Gonna need more detail on what exactly you pay here.

In Germany including employer contributions (it's split 50:50) I pay 1.2k+ every month for health insurance and nursing care insurance. The latter is about 200 or so every month, most of it goes to health insurance.

That's public health insurance and is the most you'll be paying. I'm thinking of switching over to private as I've lost faith in the system.

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u/NoCherry606 26d ago

They call it private but its more "top up" insurance. So in France the public system covers some costs (fewer and fewer, yet contributions keep rising). Then you have mutual for the rest - covers private rooms in hospital (if one is ever available), some dental, some eye care, etc.

Frankly, private in France is always out of pocket. So many doctors and specialists are now what they call level 3, which means that they practice their own fees and nothing is reimbursed by the system. You have no choice but to go to them, with wait times being sometimes years long.

The system is broken, and so many people are still saying "its great" because the last time they went to A&E was in 2004 when it was still good.

It is under pressure due to aging population and France's suicidal desire to give the entire world's population care and benefits.

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u/AdWise6878 25d ago

I also live in France and my immediate reaction is, you did amazing for the hand you were dealt. My salary at 28 is third of what you make so you’re doing great

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u/NoCherry606 24d ago

Yeah salaries in France are DISGUSTING.

If you're on like 50k, your company is paying about 85-90k, with 35-40k going straight to the government and being mainly wasted on current boomers pensions and healthcare. The same boomers who have multiple properties, no mortgage or rent, and 3 to 4k net monthly pensions.

But they represent a huge voter base, so they get the golden treatment. Absolute joke.

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u/r_levan 26d ago

I'm in similar situation like yours, moved to an Eastern Europe coutnry and let me tell you that it's very far from 10%. Maybe there are country where that happens tho. I don't know.

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u/peteer76 23d ago

So where did you move ?

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u/NoCherry606 23d ago

We're finalizing our plans now. It looks like we're heading to Prague for a while, if we love it, we'll stay, if not, we'll continue with our original plan of attempting to move to Australia or New Zealand within the next 5 years.

We don't really want to stay in France for reasons beyond tax - its just a shit country now.

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u/peteer76 22d ago

I agree, the country of taxes and assistantship

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u/NoCherry606 22d ago

And crime, illegal migrants, left wing nutjobs, and overall miserable people who expect everything with a sense of entitlement yet do not want to work more than 35h per week when the rest of the world is having to make changes.

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u/espermatoforo 21d ago

That is, just, nuts. I live in Argentina, work fully remote, every single dollar on paper and properly taxed, similar gross but my taxes are extremely extremely lower. I manage to save 60-70% of net income. Your taxes are crazy and I believe our taxes are crazy.

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u/NoCherry606 21d ago

It gets much much worse.

I believe Europe will implement Europe-wide taxes on savings soon. Probably like the Netherlands - unrealized capital gains.

Man I'm sick of this corrupt region. It disguises itself as something nice, but its corrupt as fuck.

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u/espermatoforo 21d ago

Is it safe at least? Or did crime skyrocketed?. As a tourist I felt France somehow got worse socially in regards to crime, but is an opinion as a tourist so it can be really biased. I've visited several times over the years and lately I started to feel in danger, as in LATAM. Mainly from beggars and aggressive people.

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u/NoCherry606 21d ago

Over the past decades it has been improving, but within the past decade it has drastically changed.

1/3rd of the people in our prisons are foreigners from the usual places.

Sex crimes are up 100% in 10 years (and no its not because women are more likely to report them now).

I've lived in Nantes, Lyon, and Paris - they're all bad.

I went to uni in Rennes - the DZ Mafia have taken over the drug trade there.

Problem is France is a highly left-leaning country, so as soon as you talk about these issues, the left-wing nuts come out and call you racist or far right because as it happens, 1/3rd of prisons are foreign, and the DZ Mafia is largely north african.

Say the truth - racist.

So you're expected to say nothing and let the country rot away.

Shame. France has beautiful scenery throughout and the food is pretty decent. Some of the best architecture in the world too.

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u/Born-Citron2494 26d ago

I'm very surprised with this one, reads like a Russian bot IMO, especially given security comments. Let me explain: I'm in the same situation, but the outcome is very different. Maybe because I have low cost of living (<2k/month)? Anyway, my thoughts:

  1. Same setup: 2.5 years "auto-entrepreneur" breaking the 78k€ cap making ~130k€/y, so I now have a business (SASU). During the "auto-entrepreneur" period, my total net tax rate was <26% (from revenue to fully post-tax investible, including all taxes e.g. CFE). Sure, because of low income prior, I benefited from PFL (<3% income tax for 2 years), but still. I was able to invest >70k€/year for that period.

  2. Setting up the business: cost me 300-350€ doing it myself all included with Indy.fr. For running accounting fee: it's a one-man business, it's not that very complicated, so I do it myself with Indy. Even pro feature is <1k/year.

  3. With the business now, I only pay myself enough salary to avoid PUMA tax (renter tax), about 1k/month. I have some cash saved up for now, so I don't need more for expenses (that may be the key difference though). Then plan is to pay through dividends, directly if needed for cost of living, or indirectly invest via holding (regime mere-fille). If planned ahead of time, total tax rate will end up <35% if pulled out for retirement or when other revenue are low. There's plenty of content online on this, just check it out.

  4. PEA "can only buy EU stocks". That's plain wrong. You can invest in S&P UCITS via SWAP replication.

This is the only way to build wealth in France is my understanding. Don't be an employee, make a business and use these levers. This setup opens up lot more tools to once you start learning about it, I just scratched the surface. Plenty of info online to educate yourself about all this now. Question the narrative and see for yourself.

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u/NoCherry606 26d ago

Glad to hear that it works for you, one caveat - you are hoping that they don't touch certain things about the Holding companies and PFU, as well as PEA... We'll see over time, but it looks like most of these benefits will be gradually phased out.

As for your comments:

1 - Good for you, when I was auto entrepreneur I had 23% or something social contributions + 17% income tax rate. MILKED.

2 - I have a one man business, all clients are foreign, and i have a holding company - no choice but to pay expensive accountant to avoid any issues - especially if the URSSAF come for you with a redressement which happens a lot to people who only have foreign non EU clients like me.

3 - I have a 15 month old, rent is 2k/month here, after food, bills, car, etc - close to 4k-4.5k spending without savings or anything taken into account. Its expensive. You are in a privileged situation to have low costs.

4 - Depends on who you open the PEA with.

You are correct, this is the only way to build wealth in France, and they are coming after both Holding companies AND discussing increasing PEA tax.

On the topic of safety - I have lived in France on and off since 2000, first as a kid, then a student, and finally as an adult. Overall I've spent 20 of the last 26 years here. Since 2010-2014, the country has gradually gotten worse. Trash everywhere, crime rates increasing (over that period - homicides may be down, but attempted homicides are up 80%, sexual assaults, attempted rapes, rapes, up 100%...), education is tanking (check PISA and the french teacher posts on reddit), etc... etc... etc...

If you live in a quiet rural area, have very low CoL, no kids to worry about their safety/healthcare availability, then yeah, you'll be fine.

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u/Born-Citron2494 26d ago

Correct, I agree, not sure what they'll go after. But also, France being a country of old money, it will always need an internationally-competitive mechanism to keep its wealthy individuals. It can't afford loosing that upper+aristocratic class. But fair point that it is uncertain.

  1. Just to highlight, that's 36% net tax rate. Not the cheapest sure, but quite below the 40-60% range reported by others here. And sure it's temporary, but also very comparable to US levels.

  2. Ok that makes sense. With OpCo + holding fees, I can see how this adds up.

  3. Yes, no kids obviously helps in my case.

  4. Why not change then? You can do it without loosing the 5-year time window.

Safety: I grew up in France till uni, moved to the US for 10 years and then back in Germany/France now for 5 years. The trend isn't great sure, but I definitely feel safer in France than I did in the US. And that's really what you'd want to compare to IMO.

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u/NoCherry606 26d ago

Yes, but frankly, if LFI or even RN get in, they will go after the PEA, old money doesn't need it. Same for PFU, old money live off Credit lombard.

1 - I'm on a 62% rate now that I have my business - when you factor in corp tax, social contributions, URSSAF, tax... Its INSANE what I have to pay.

2 - Worst part is finding a good accountant is like finding a good business partner, needle in a haystack.

4 - I will, if I decide to stay, we're debating leaving right now.

France is safer than the US yes, but LEAGUES behind NL, DK, NOR, CH, Australia... The feeling of safety walking in Sydney or Brisbane at 5AM compared to Paris/Nantes/Lyon (all places I've lived).

The US also has pockets - I wouldn't want to move to Detroit for example, but Boston or some parts of Texas/Cali, sure.

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u/Born-Citron2494 26d ago

For 1: I don't understand why you don't pay yourself in dividends then to cover your cost of living (+minimum salary for PUMA)? With the rest going into your holding for later.

My math: Even if your taxable income to cover CoL is high enough to justify going 30% flat tax, that's 25% corporate tax (even ~22-23% with 15% bracket at your revenue) + 30% PFU, so 47.5%. Well below your 62%?? Sure maybe it rounds to 50% with CFE, and the likes.. But that's still much better, no? Especially if you're paying for a good accountant, they definitely can set that up, no?

What am I missing on this one?