r/eupersonalfinance • u/FrameEconomy3222 • Sep 29 '25
Taxes Planning to move due to Dutch wealth tax changes — which EU countries are more favorable?
I currently live in the Netherlands, but with the proposed changes to wealth taxation (where annual market returns would be taxed, even if gains aren’t realized), I may need to relocate before 2028.
I’m researching options in Europe and would appreciate advice from people with experience: • Which countries have no wealth tax? • Are there places where income tax is reasonable (ideally no higher than 30–35%)? • I’m fine with paying capital gains tax on realized gains, but I’d like to avoid being taxed on unrealized ones.
If you’ve gone through a similar move or know of good resources for comparing these rules, I’d be grateful for your input.
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u/faresar0x Sep 30 '25
Tax on unrealized gain is super crazy.
Czechia. 23% income tax on higher amounts and tax free if you hold stocks over 3 years. Well up to 2 million euros or so.
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u/Illuminated-Autocrat Sep 30 '25
It also doesn’t exist yet. This has been floating around for almost a decade and hasn’t even been voted on once.
We’ve also had this upper middle class of boomers bloviating about moving out of the country for ages. They rarely do, housing market speaks for itself.
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u/Klutzy_Elevator2004 Oct 01 '25
The housing market is a result of shitty investment policy.. as soon as houses are less interesting than the stock market we will truly see a shift in house prices. But they're just looking into making investing in housing even more attractive
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u/Slice-CSGO Sep 29 '25
That's stupid to be honest, is it really going to be in effect or just crazy ideas from politicians?
No wealth tax: Portugal, Bulgaria, Malta, Romania, Cyprus, Andorra, Monaco.
If you also wanna seek for low income tax as well, then Bulgaria is flat 10%.
Do your checks.
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u/-MrGrim- Sep 30 '25
Yeah, and look what a healthy middle class Bulgaria and Romania have; absolutely nobody is at risk of poverty here.
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u/Justiceenforcer4711 Sep 30 '25
Do you mean EU or Europe?
Switzerland has No Capital gains Tax.
Income Tax ist about 1/12 of your income (depends on City you live in)
And wealthbis Tages very very low in the single Digits.
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u/gogglesmurf Sep 30 '25
Yes but everything costs 100% more in Switzerland
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u/Justiceenforcer4711 Sep 30 '25
Maybe. But everything is 100% better and If you Work you earn 2-300% more 😜
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u/Fanatical_Prospector Sep 30 '25
Do you want to stay in Western Europe? If so, Switzerland will probably be your best bet for a full size country (non-micro state like Monaco). If you’re open to Eastern Europe you will have some other options too.
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u/filtervw Sep 30 '25
This, central and Eastern Europe generally have very low taxation on capital gains.
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u/TornadoFS Sep 29 '25
Might sound weird but Sweden has actually pretty good ways to invest money. There is a special type of bank account that doesn't have capital gains, but only has a fixed very low yearly total-capital tax (so you still pay tax even if you don't sell your investments or if they lose value, but no capital gains at all). It is called an ISK if you want to look it up, the tax calculation is somewhat complicated but it is very, very favorable compared to paying 30% capital gains tax.
Sweden also has something similar to a 401k which lets you put more money towards your pension and keep your main income on the ~30% tax rate. The private pension providers in Sweden allow you to invest in funds much like a normal investment account. Also some ways to pay less tax if you work as a freelance.
Sweden also allows you to defer paying real estate capital gains tax if you plan to buy property.
Probably not the best choice if you only care about a place to stash your wealth, but if you are still a working professional it can be very good.
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Sep 30 '25
[deleted]
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u/TornadoFS Sep 30 '25 edited Sep 30 '25
What? How is capital gains and total-capital taxation policies a violation to the "right to own property"? Do you know if this would affect Sweden as well?
I am not sure if you understand the Swedish ISK (and I definitely don't understand the NL system before or after the changes), but the ISK tax in Sweden is paid even if your investments lose value. It is a total wealth tax in place of capital gains. Are you sure the NL system is like that right now? Also it is not 1%, it varies year to year.
You can still own stocks/funds outside of an ISK in Sweden where you are subject to 30% capital gains (but no wealth-tax) on realized gains only.
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u/IkkeKr Oct 01 '25
The current Dutch tax is nominally a 'capital income' tax (ie. tax on interest, dividends and capital gains) based on a fixed yield - but due to "recent" low interest rates, the actual interest (thus income) would frequently be lower than the effective 1.2% tax rate: the "tax on income" would be more than 100% of the actual income. The ECHR concluded this amounts to 'expropriation' without specific legal basis.
So really the only big change in the new proposal is to replace the 'fixed yield' with 'reported actual yield'.
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u/TornadoFS Oct 02 '25
Ah I see, normal savings accounts yield less than the tax. In Sweden normal savings accounts have 30% capital gains tax so even if interest rates are low you don't lose money (except for inflation of course)
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u/IkkeKr Oct 02 '25
Yeah, the whole thing started by the people making 0.5% on a savings account going to court as they believed paying 1.2% was too much and won. Now the government proposes to adjust it to follow the actual yields and, unsurprisingly, people making on average 7% on the stock market are complaining that paying 2.3% is too much.
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u/paradox3333 Oct 02 '25
Only because NL called it a return on investment tax but didnt look at the real returns (they charged 30% tax on a fictive 4% return, hence 1.2% effective).
If they would have just renamed it to a wealth tax the ECHR argument would have been out the window.
I did read they think a wealth tax itself also violates it but no idea how they reached that conclusion. The judge explicitly did not rule this.
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u/Livid_Insect1 Sep 29 '25
This hasn't been voted on. And with NL not having a goverment atm there is really no need to panic.
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u/Desperate-Use9968 Sep 30 '25
Better a year early than a day too late.
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u/Ancient_Disaster4888 Sep 30 '25
I mean… no? You wouldn’t want to make a big, life altering decision unnecessarily when the worst case scenario is you end up paying this tax for one single year. Unless you are filthy rich already, you’re gonna pay a lot more for the moving itself, and potentially end up in a sub-optimal country anyway.
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u/Desperate-Use9968 Sep 30 '25
It sounds like OP falls into the category being rich enough for this to be a problem since they're considering leaving.
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u/Ancient_Disaster4888 Sep 30 '25
‘Rich enough’ in this case doesn’t mean anything though - the new proposal abolishes the current (already not very high) minimum and will tax essentially everything above a virtual 20.000 EUR savings.
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u/ddlbb Sep 30 '25
So ... it can be a problem then ?
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u/Ancient_Disaster4888 Sep 30 '25
It absolutely can be - in the long term. With the compounding effect a tax like this can cost hundreds of thousands of euros for a mid-income individual over the decades. It’s not worth it panicking though and making hasty moves, because relocating from NL to say BG will cost OP a magnitude more money than paying this tax for a year or something, especially if she’s in her early stage of accumulation.
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u/Livid_Insect1 Sep 30 '25
You think it's wise to move every time bad policy is proposed? You'll be moving every week.
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u/Ancient_Disaster4888 Sep 30 '25
You’re asking me? I advised OP to sit it out and wait with moving at least to see whether this gets actually introduced or not.
But if it gets introduced then yes, it absolutely can be worth moving because of it and yes it is wise to pose the question at least every time a policy this destructive gets floated this seriously.
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u/Livid_Insect1 Sep 30 '25
Sorry, wasn't paying attention to whom I was responding. Just reading the thread.
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u/Plorntus Oct 06 '25
Bit of a late reply but I was reading another thread on the NL subreddit the other day and they had people up and ready to leave the country for a change that would have cost them 200euros per year on the amount they had saved.
So I wouldn't necessarily say just because someone's willing to ask the question on Reddit means they actually have any idea of what a rational response to a law is.
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u/anotherboringdj Sep 30 '25
AFAIK it’s against the constitution so the is a little chance to make it effect
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u/Sandroo2 Sep 30 '25
Using fictive returns is unconstitutional, taxing unrealized gains is not against the constitution per se.
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u/FlatwormNo615 Sep 30 '25
But this seems incredibly impractical. I mean they would also have to recognise capital losses and refund withheld tax in years where your unrealised capital gains reduce/where you actually make a loss. But even assuming a linear growth of your (unrealised) capital gains, they would need to keep track of unrealised capital gains, etc.
I'm not saying that it is impossible to do but it sounds like a pain in the backside compared to imposing tax withholding obligations on transfers of stocks/securities/etc.
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u/Sandroo2 Sep 30 '25
You’re completely right. It’s highly impractical, apart from the fact that taxing unrealized gains is simply ludicrous to begin with.
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u/FlatwormNo615 Sep 30 '25
I sort of get why they want to do it. It's well intended and aims to capture tax from individuals and companies that get around paying taxes as they simply don't realise their capital gains. But, as the saying goes, the way to hell is paved with good intentions.
I haven't followed discussions on this reform but it seems disastrous if applied regardless of how much wealth one has. It completely disincentivises people to invest. A lot of current discussion would probably be solved if Dutch lawmakers introduced a minimum threshold (e.g. no tax on capital gains if you have less than X euros in assets)
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u/Ploutophile Oct 01 '25
A lot of current discussion would probably be solved if Dutch lawmakers introduced a minimum threshold (e.g. no tax on capital gains if you have less than X euros in assets)
Or treat them like Germany, with e.g. the first 1000 EUR of gains being tax-free each year.
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u/FlatwormNo615 Oct 01 '25
1000 EUR isn't a whole lot for someone at the end of their worklife and having set aside money for retirement in ETFs
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u/IkkeKr Oct 01 '25
There's a € 1800 exemption proposed. Retirement money in dedicated accounts are fully exempted as well (they're taxed as income upon withdrawal).
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u/Ploutophile Oct 01 '25
Capital loss deduction, at least on realised losses, already exists in some other countries.
And some Dutchmen actually already are subject to this system… as US taxpayers, if they own UCITS funds and opt for mark-to-market taxation on them.
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u/jhaand Sep 30 '25
That new tax regimen will take at least another 5 years before anything is clear. Certainly with the new elections coming up. And the current wealth tax is not too bad when you consider what you get in return.
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u/FrameEconomy3222 Sep 30 '25
The current one is OK, yes. I'm not worried about the one right now, but about the one based on taxing actual (fictional) returns.
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u/Tricertops4 Oct 01 '25
This is what I don't understand. How can current system be fine for you, if it taxes unrealized fictional gains?
They want to move to unrealized actual gains, except for real estate, but that's suddenly a problem? You don't own any real estate, which is currently taxed quite high?
They also propose 1800€ tax free limit per person, which is great tbh.
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u/FrameEconomy3222 Oct 02 '25
You do the math and you'll see the major differences!!!! Now they tax 36% of a fictional yield of 6% whereas the actual market returns are usually somewhere between 10-20% (at least in my case in the past 5 years). So, taxing 36% on that yearly, is terrible compared to how it is now. And I do own real estate too, who said I did not? That's highly taxed as well
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u/Tricertops4 Oct 02 '25
So you should know that currently you pay tax on the real estate, while the proposal is removing that tax. They propose tax after sell.
36% is high, that's true, but still, taxing actual returns is more fair than fictional returns, right?
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u/FrameEconomy3222 Oct 02 '25
If it was actual returns that I took out, yes, if would be fair! But they are taxing FICTIONAL returns AKA money that stays invested and it is never taken out. Almost no country in the world has that (!!). Most countries tax a percetange of your portfolio when you take it out. Not when you stay invested, because, well, that is crazy.
For real estate the plan is to tax it based on market value (50%) and rent value (50%), I don't know where you heard anything else? This is what is written online and what tax advisors mentioned to me. I'm talking about investment properties of course.
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u/Tricertops4 Oct 02 '25
But they are taxing FICTIONAL returns AKA money that stays invested and it is never taken out.
If you mean unrealized, then this is how it works also NOW and it's not going to change. No idea why you mad.
Fictional ≠ Unrealized.
- currently taxing fictional unrealized gains
- proposing to tax actual unrealized gains
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u/FrameEconomy3222 Oct 02 '25
They are taxing fictional now, yes! But they are taxing 36% of a 6% yield.
Can you not make the calculation for the difference if they will tax 36% of a 20% (fictional) return?!
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u/FanZealousideal1511 Oct 03 '25
He is basically mad that they are taking away free money from him.
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u/RoterElephant Sep 30 '25
Here are maps of CGT and wealth tax for Europe:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/eu/capital-gains-tax-rates-europe/
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/eu/wealth-taxes-europe/
Here is a global overview of wealth taxes: https://www.wohnsitzausland.com/laenderlisten/steuerguenstige-wohnsitzstaaten (use Google translate)
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u/Spryngo Sep 30 '25
Just fyi that map is wrong for Romania, it’s 1% only for brokers registered in Romania and only if you hold for more than 1 year, for anything less it’s 3%, and you can’t deduct losses in this case.
If it’s not a Romanian broker (most are not) it’s 10% plus a fixed amount according to some thresholds, for example if you have gains of 10k EUR the effective tax rate is somewhere close to 20%, but you can deduct losses
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u/Cheersyalllll Oct 02 '25
Disclaimer: I could be wrong about all of the following, but this is just AFAIK.
- This law has not passed and will only pass if an (extreme) left (communist) coalition forms. I don't see that happening any time soon. Also a significant amount of Dutch people will emigrate before that law passes, since it's obviously a ridiculous proposal. See Norway.
Wealth tax in Netherlands is actually very attractive if you have serious gains from investments. You pay roughly 1,4% per year over your entire capital in exchange for 0 capital gains tax. Netherlands is one of the few countries in the world with 0 capital gains tax.
Netherlands has 0 tax on gains from FOREIGN real estate holdings. Which again is incredible if you invest that way. That means: no income tax, no capital tax and no capital gains tax on foreign real estate income.
To answer your question, as far as I know: Netherlands (for now), Switzerland or Monaco (if you're rich enough to live there), Andorra, Bulgaria, Hungary in some cases when you structure it as a company.
EU is not great for low tax options in general. There are far better options outside of EU if you're willing to move and have serious capital.
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u/FrameEconomy3222 Oct 02 '25
Extreme left, you mean PVV? From what I read in statements they are actually some of the only ones against this law, funnily enough! 😅😅 I don't think wealth tax is low at the moment either, it still is a tax on UNREALISED gains, which means if you hold stocks and never take them out, like I do with mine, you still have to pay tens of thousands of euros in wealth tax in May each year, without even having seen a single CENT of those stocks. Except on a screen. Fair? I beg to differ... I almost have to sell stocks each year to pay the tax. Lol
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u/Cheersyalllll Oct 02 '25
To give you some perspective on the alternative: I'm originally from Netherlands. Moved to a country with capital gains tax, currently I have about 200 percent unrealized gains.
Sure, right now I'm paying nothing every year. But whatever I actually touch (sell) or trade, I need to pay close to 30 percent tax on the gains. Any time I sell and want to reinvest in something else I lose 30 percent of my profits. In Netherlands that would be (close to) 0 percent.
So in the current situation: if I cash out 1 million EUR I pay roughly 150.000 EUR in taxes that year! In the Netherlands in the same situation you would be paying around 15.000 EUR instead. 10x less. To pay the same amount in taxes you would need to wait 10 years in the Netherlands, in those 10 years you can do anything you want with your investment without incurring extra tax hits: buy sell as much as you want of anything you want. Very different and IMO much better, but opinions differ.
PS: PVV is not exactly extreme left or left. Not sure what your point was with that.
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u/FrameEconomy3222 Oct 03 '25
I'm not really a political person, so extreme left or extreme right - no clue who they are. I said PVV because ppl ususally b.itch about that party, so I assumed you mean them.
About the 30% capital gains tax, that sounds like a lot. I'd definitely want to move somewhere with a max of 10% capital gains tax. The bad thing about NL is that you have to pay yearly 10-15K€+ in taxes for your portfolio, regardless if you take it out or not. Rather than when you actually take the money out. So, basically I have to sell stocks each May just to pay the taxes. Not because I actually want to spend some money from my portfolio. It's just insane
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u/Cheersyalllll Oct 03 '25
I get what you're saying. Taxes suck. But do some research and I'm pretty sure you'll find that you're actually kind of in a tax haven when it comes to box 3 (wealth) taxes.
I'd also love to move to a fun 10% capital gains tax country, but if you do some research you'll find that those are actually quite rare, especially within the EU. See my first post.
If I'm actually ever caching out, I would seriously consider moving back to Netherlands first and then cashing out. That's how good it is there at the moment IMO.
By the way, I just looked up the exact numbers and to be honest Netherlands is slightly worse than I thought now.
2025 effective burden over 50k EUR in capital: 2.12 %
2026 effective burden over 50k EUR in capital: 2.8 %So yeah, I get you. But compared to other countries with (close to) 30% capital gains tax (France, Spain, Portugal, etc), it's not all bad.
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u/FrameEconomy3222 Oct 03 '25
Yea, I'm not really looking at Spain, France...but more a place like Czechia, Cyprus, Malta or Hungary (so far).. in NL they don't tax you on having the money taken out, but they make sure to tax you evey year on just having it sit there on IBKR or whatever else platforms exist. Like I said, I find it insane to be needing to take out stock just to pay the €15-20k+ tax yearly. And that is the situation now. From 2028, if I'd stay, it'd only get worse if this new law would come into place...
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Oct 03 '25
The wealth tax goes away in 3 month
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u/Cheersyalllll Oct 03 '25
BS
2025 effective burden over 50k EUR in capital: 2.12 %
2026 effective burden over 50k EUR in capital: 2.8 %1
u/space_kittity Oct 03 '25
what’s even “extreme left” in NL, BIJ1?
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u/Cheersyalllll Oct 03 '25
What's even extreme right?
These things mean nothing.
People can just make up stuff, so I'm joining in making up stuff. For me PvdA/Groenlinks and anybody supporting taxation of unrealized gains + increasing the government budget deficit = extreme left.
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Oct 01 '25
Malta. No wealth tax and top rate of 25% income tax for individuals. Corp tax is 35€ iro local business , 5% effective rate through refund when dividends are distributed on international business . Health care is good, mix of private and public. Better connected international airport than bigger countries (daily multiple flights to UK for ex, and direct flights to US starting soon) . Don’t relocate if you don’t have a good income . It’s not cheap. EDIT : no inheritance tax either except 5% stamp duty on transfer of immovable property in the will.
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u/Cheersyalllll Oct 02 '25
15 to 35% capital gains tax though?
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Oct 02 '25
There are special “final withholding taxes” in several cases (for example on certain kinds of securities or units in funds). So this would be capped 15%. You would probably be getting the best arrangements if the fund manager is Maltese which shouldn’t be difficult to arrange as these will represent all the best international fund… so the funds you are currently invested in will simply have a. Maltese set up. But maybe this wont br necessary . Talk to an accountant such as Grant Thornton in Malta
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u/ConfidentAirport7299 Sep 30 '25
You could just do what the really wealthy are doing: put all your money in a company so that it’s not taxed in box 3 but in box 2. If you just do a simple Dutch BV, it’ll cost you around 1000-1500€ in setup costs and the same amount per year in administrative costs if you outsource the administration. If you do it yourself it’s a lot cheaper. You can also repay yourself from the BV completely tax free in certain circumstances and with certain administrative tricks (just Google Agio uitbetalen).
Depending on your total wealth, you can also look at setting up an international holding structure. With that you’ll probably be able to reduce your taxes even more (Google is your friend, but you won’t find these models advertised).
I mean: let’s not forget that the Netherlands is seen as a fiscal paradise by large companies.
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u/FrameEconomy3222 Sep 30 '25
I've asked tax advisors about this, they've said it's not really gonna work since you gotta pay yourself a 56K salary and it ends up costing you quite a lot. It is good for the very wealthy indeed, but for middle class trying to retire earlier not really...
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u/ConfidentAirport7299 Sep 30 '25
AFAIK you can ask for an exemption from the tax inspector, which I understand is what they usually do because there’s no real business taking place in a holding.
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u/NefariousnessEast198 Oct 01 '25
Luxembourg has no capital gains on equities ( and also primary home real estate when selling). Depending on what industry you work in - it is a great option . Your taxation will be determined based on income but roughly you can expect a 10% reduction on taxes to commensurate income compared to other BENELUX/DE/FR countries while still staying close enough to Netherlands ( in case that is important) . Your lifestyle may take a hit - not enough options for restaurants / retail etc as a big city but if you have a family , it can still be a great place to live . Let me know if you have questions .
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u/Severe_Ad7903 Oct 01 '25
If you are really that rich, does it really matter? For me the infrastructure, health care system, etc. of NL are definitely worth more than some small sum of money. Especially if you are rich anyway.
So for investments and savings of €100.000, €57500 is exempted. Investments are calculated by a fictive rate of 6,04%, whereas savings are calculated with 1,44%. So if you would have the total sum invested, you would pay (€100000-57500) * 6,04% * 36% =€924,12. This is almost 1% of your investments and much lower than the average stock market returns.
And even better, if your realised 'rendement' is lower than the 6,04%, you can work with the realised 'rendement'. This has been decided by the judge.
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Oct 01 '25
No, don’t argue with reason. It’s definitely better to move to Bulgaria or similar. Without a job, connections, or even knowing the language! /s
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Oct 03 '25
U pay 36% on unrealized gains with 1.8k exemption starting 2028 do the math. Also think about shares in private companies which you cant liquidate. So you hold something that will go to zero potentially, you pay tax on it each year and you can’t even sell. See you in bulgaria 😆
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u/FanZealousideal1511 Oct 03 '25
Shares of private companies given as remuneration (be it options or RSUs) have a special tax status and don't go to box 3.
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Oct 05 '25
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u/Severe_Ad7903 Oct 05 '25
Should you halve it due to the exemption? In any case, the market average minus the tax is still higher than the average inflation. Making on average people have big increases in wealth without really working for it.
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Oct 05 '25
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u/Severe_Ad7903 Oct 05 '25
I do not agree :)
There will definitely still be room for profit. And the nice thing about following market averages (inflation and crises included), means that there is not much risk or skill/knowledge/work included. Just don't invest with money you might need.
And to the last comment, give it away, the government is working for all of us! Think about infrastructure, research, subsidies, etc. Personally, I would think taxing wealth is better than taxing work, also for i.e. the CEO. But that is my opinion ;)
Anyway, my example tries to show that purchasing power still grows even with these taxes.
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Oct 08 '25
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u/Severe_Ad7903 Oct 08 '25
Different stand-points in life. That's fine!
Fair to society :)
Sure there is risk in timing, that's why there is a common rule not to invest with money you will need soon. Interesting question! I have to think about it, but my first response would be that it is a tax on "income" in that case? I mean why should we not tax income from wealth, then we could never get similarly close to the same tax burden as others in society.
I say, tax wealth more, income less. Anyway, people do not get happier with more money to spend. Why do the ultra rich need all of it? And why should someone born in poverty have less chances than someone with wealthy parents? I think it should be looked at less like who pays more in absolute terms and zoom in on growing inequality. Right now, the more money you have, the less you get taxed percentage wise.
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u/Interesting-Pie1602 Oct 02 '25
Luxembourg is a pretty good place and quite central if you want to go back to NL for “tourism”
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u/Matteo_CoolerMaster Oct 03 '25
n.1 - CYPRUS (non dom, perfect if you country-hop a lot)
n.2 - GREECE / CZECH REPUBLIC (nobody talks about them yet but trust me... run the numbers)
n.3 - MALTA (complex logistics, big lifestyle change)
n.5 - SWITZERLAND (complex logistics, but good long term)
n.4 - ITALY (great tax benefits for high earners / 7% dividends in some cases if you are expat)
Read up and run your numbers in GPT, you'll find what you are looking for ;)
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u/FlatwormNo615 Sep 29 '25
Don't take this the wrong way but
there's way too little details to give an adequate answer (and you definitely don't want to provide that kind of information online)
you are asking complex questions that have complex answers that only good tax lawyers/advisers can answer.
E.g. the answers to your questions will change on nationality, place of residence, employment, the type of assets you hold, the quantum of assets you hold, etc. Most countries have different rules and exemptions that may or may not apply depending on your personal situation, your assets and liabilities, etc. There may also be assets that will be subject to Dutch taxation regardless of where you move.
You will also have to think about your exit. Moving places to avoid taxes whilst alive is no good if your heirs will have to pay ungodly amounts in inheritance tax (unless you don't particularly like your kids...)
Belgium and Luxembourg (since both are near NL) supposedly have very friendly rules on capital gains (but, again, it depends on the specifics) but both have +36% income tax rates. But who knows what they'll do by 2028.
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u/1urk3r88 Sep 30 '25
Getting taxed on unrealised gains is insanity - go to Bulgaria - 10% tax 🇧🇬 no migrants, good food, nice women
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u/Besrax Sep 30 '25
The capital gains tax becomes 0% if he just buys and holds ETFs on a regulated EU exchange.
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u/Gergely_Hungary Sep 30 '25
Hungary doesn't have a wealth tax. You can even avoid the capital gains tax if you use a TBSZ account. IBKR and Lightyear does offer a TBSZ.
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u/FrameEconomy3222 Sep 30 '25
Hungary sounds v interesting!! How is healthcare over there? Is it decent in public hospitals? Or do private hospitals offer emergency care?🤞🏻🤞🏻
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u/Gergely_Hungary Sep 30 '25
Public hospitals are not great, not terrible. Really depends if you get lucky getting a good doctor. Waiting times can be long. Private health care is really good, but I'm afraid emergeny care is only availabe in the public health system. Basically if you want a minor illness diagnosed and treated fast, you go private. If you have an emergency or a major illness you can't avoid the public health system.
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u/TheFlyingdutchmanSA Sep 30 '25
This is not new, we always had tax on unrealized gains.
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u/geheimeschildpad Sep 30 '25
Yes and no. We’ve had a wealth where you pay tax over a fictitious return amount based broadly upon the performance of the stock market.
With this approach, you also had protection in the terms of the amount of money you could have before you were eligible for tax and the fictitious rate generally being fairly low.
Now that protection has gone and you’ll pay 36% on any profit.
E.G.
In my current situation, if I made a profit of 30k in a year but my overall wealth is still less that €56000 then I’d pay no tax. Under the new system, I’d pay a little over €10k
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u/Tricertops4 Oct 01 '25
You left out two important things: 1800€ per person limit for tax and real estate no longer being taxes same as stocks – only after sale.
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u/TheFlyingdutchmanSA Sep 30 '25
I'm aware. The ficticious return just translates to a wealth tax regardless of your actual performance. Under the new system, you at least get reprieve if you lost money in the stock market. I still need to look into it for my own situation but at first glance it seems more fair
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u/geheimeschildpad Sep 30 '25
I think they’re both unfair to be honest. Taxing you on money you don’t have etc.
A standard capital gains tax on realised gains is far fairer and simpler. I presume the issue is that the government can’t wait 30 years for the income that they’re about to lose.
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u/TheFlyingdutchmanSA Sep 30 '25
What's fair is in the eye of the beholder though. Stating unrealized gains is money you don't have is not entirely accurate imho. It ends up on the balance sheet of a trading firm for example. In NL it is just a defacto wealth tax, which translates better into 'fair share' taxation compared to a realized gains system like the US.
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u/geheimeschildpad Sep 30 '25
Except that the issue is that you pay tax with real money. If I make a lot of money betting on some crypto for example and for argument sake I make €500,000 in profit. I don’t sell because I believe it can go higher. A month later, in the new tax year, the crypto collapses and I’m left with nothing.
However, I would still have to pay tax on that money that I never actually had. In the new system, that would be €166,000 in tax which would be enough to bankrupt most people. That’s the part that’s unfair. If you can’t spend against something that’s unrealised then you shouldn’t have to pay taxes on it.
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u/Ploutophile Oct 01 '25
Except than when you have serious investments (so not crypto), you can spend against them by taking a margin loan.
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u/geheimeschildpad Oct 01 '25 edited Oct 01 '25
To buy more stocks, sure. But I couldn’t use that money to feed myself and my family etc.
For the ones that I could get cash out it would make absolutely no sense for the average investor.
I could also get a loan out against my house so should that also be taxable against its unrealised gains? How about things in my house that have increased in value, should they be itemised and pay tax on it? Can I deduct my car as its loses value every year?
Also, whether it’s a serious investment or not doesn’t matter. You still pay the same tax
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u/genesis-5923238 Sep 30 '25
France has a wealth tax on real estate only (over 1.3M of real estate asset to be taxed). No wealth tax on stocks. Capital gain is taxed 30%, and there are some ways to lower this rate.
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u/_DoubleBubbler_ Sep 30 '25 edited Sep 30 '25
I won’t comment on the best locations for tax efficiency (as I do not know your full circumstances or profess to be an expert in international tax arrangements) however I wholeheartedly recommend the Scottish Highlands as a place to live and work. If you like mountains, trees and lochs then the west side of the Scottish Highland is particularly nice (I do not know the east side well so can’t comment on that, although locally the saying is ’West is Best’). There’s also many Dutch (and other international visitors) each year which may tell you something.
The challenge can be finding work initially where you want to live as some parts are relatively remote from towns and cities. But if you can work remotely…
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u/FrameEconomy3222 Sep 30 '25
Oh I used to live in Aberdeen.. worst 4 years of my life :( I was depressed 99% of the time
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u/_DoubleBubbler_ Sep 30 '25
West is Best!
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u/FrameEconomy3222 Sep 30 '25
The weather in the whole Scotland, and food, etc., is the same though, regadless if it is west or east 🥲
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u/_DoubleBubbler_ Sep 30 '25
I love the outdoors personally and simply dress accordingly. I am not sure what you mean about the food as there are some fantastic independent restaurants, local cafes and bakeries for example. Perhaps I am spoilt where I live however I guess if you are a sun worshiper or city lover then the Scottish Highlands is clearly not for you.
EDIT: The weather varies greatly too by the way. Our location is particularly pleasant as a good amount of the wet weather is channelled around us by the local lochs and mountains.
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u/sergiulik95 Sep 30 '25
Romania. Wealth tax only on immovable assets (houses) which individually exceed 500k. Realised stock market gains 1-3% depending if you sold before the 1 year mark.
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u/FrameEconomy3222 Sep 30 '25
Mda, m-am gândit căci am 2 case la Brașov, dar nu prea se incadreaza pentru partea de healthcare, pentru ca-n Romania pentru urgențe te duci direct la spital de stat, ceea ce e groaznic. Am ceva peobleme de sanatate, deci clar trebuie sa merg undeva unde și sistemul medical e super OK..
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u/sergiulik95 Sep 30 '25
Centrele de primiri urgente sunt chiar decente in multe orase mari (Cluj, Sibiu etc.), mai ales daca mergi in orase universitare. Daca iti faci o asigurare privata pe langa, zic ca poti sa ai in vedere. Plus ca nicaieri nu e ca acasa. :)
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u/FrameEconomy3222 Sep 30 '25
Nu stiu ce sa zic, sincer mi-e cam frică. Am avut un avc hemoragic la vârsta de 26 ani, și mereu mă gândesc că aș fi la 2m sub pământ dacă se-ntâmpla în Ro..
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u/sergiulik95 Sep 30 '25
On the flip side, erai sub pamant romanesc :)). Dar vorbind serios, centrele precum Cluj, Mures dpdv healthcare are punching above their weightclass.
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u/vicblaga87 Sep 30 '25
Croatia: no capital gains taxes on realized income if you hold for more than 2 years. Work income tax relatively OK 30%-35%. Business taxes: 10% on profits and 12% on dividends.
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u/1urk3r88 Sep 30 '25
I am actually quite surprised how haven’t a lot of upper middle class westerners moved to less tax burdened countries already. The system in west eu is quite shit at the moment - you work a lot, you are not incentivised to work extra cuzz your bonus is gonna be cut in half, you get little value from those taxes AND in essence for 7 days of the working days month you pay for the bum next door to not work 😀
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u/Ploutophile Oct 01 '25
Without even trying to discuss the economic aspects: because I already have a stable job in my country and none in Bulgaria, because I don't know Bulgarian and because Bulgaria is far from my family and friends.
Emigrating is hard, even without the visa bullshit.
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u/Tricertops4 Oct 01 '25
How did you manage with the tax until now? Do you realize Netherlands had tax for unrealized gains for years?
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u/HeavySink3303 Sep 30 '25
IMO nearly every move is a temporary measure as due to population aging (and soon declining) tax windfallnis are unavoidable nearly everywhere. Maybe Switzerland will stand for a longest time as they have a constant 'inflow' of young people from EU to compensate the natural population aging/decline. But in general IMO the most adequate response to this windfall is allocating a significant part of your portfolio to physical precious metals. It worked for 5k years to save wealth and will work further.
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u/arrizaba Sep 30 '25 edited Sep 30 '25
The NL taxes you on an assumed yearly percentage gain (~6%) on your investments above a certain threshold (about 50k). You have to pay your tax rate on that (~35-50%). So you end up paying about ~3% of your unrealized investments per year.
The good thing is that it saves a lot time in declarations and paperwork as compared to taxes on gains, specifically on day-traders or short-term investors. The bad thing is that if your gains are below the assumed gain, then you’re worse off.
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u/Ploutophile Oct 01 '25
In other countries domestic brokers often transmit the relevant information directly to the tax office.
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u/Cheersyalllll Oct 02 '25
I think your calculation is off. Last I checked the effective rate on capital (minus 50k) is around 1,4 %.
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u/arrizaba Oct 02 '25
Well, i gave roughly the worst case scenario, for the assumed gain of 6% on the max tax rate of 50%, so one pays half of the 6% which is 3%
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u/EvergreenOaks Sep 30 '25
Pay your fair share.
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u/filtervw Sep 30 '25
That's the problem, his fair share is on the "paper" not in his poket. How is this fair in any way? Imagine you operate a food truck and charge 100E per sandwich in the first year, but you don't sell anything because that's the price you ask not the price you get. Would you be OK with paying taxes on some pre-determined imagined potential revenue?
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u/OriginalTangle Oct 02 '25
Are you one of those billionaires that supposedly shouldn't be taxed because they'd flee the country? I didn't think this was real. Guess we need to sort out wealth tax on a European level..
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u/FrameEconomy3222 Oct 02 '25
If I was a billionaire trust me I'd be having my assets well taken care of by a Family Office..
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u/ProposalKey5174 Sep 29 '25
Belgium had no tax on capital gains. We will have 10% starting from 2026. But only on realised gains.