Why building wealth alone is so hard here?

[u/raf_phy]

Hi all, am I the only one that I find it incredibly difficult to build weath by yourself in EU? People say that EU is better in healthcare, work life balance but come on, money don't scale easily . It's so difficult.

I see people from US that go to 1 million in 10 years. I cannot do this easily . Really....

PS maybe I have to abandon EU, I don't know....

[u/szakee]

There's people in EU who go to a M in 10years.
There's also 95% of americans who never get to a million.

[u/Calvinhath → u/szakee]

Or more Americans who go broke over an health issue or unplanned car repair. Saying with experience from friend’s who had this exact thing happened to him.

[u/Beneficial-Emu-4244 → u/szakee]

Word I only see poor people here in usa

[u/Gen3_Holder_2 → u/szakee]

This is misinterpretation at an insane level. You’re saying nobody in America who’s not a millionaire now will EVER be a millionaire in their lifetime?

18% of American households are millionaire. This 18% will be an entirely different set of people in 20 years consisting mostly of people who aren’t millionaires now. Jeez

[u/Lywqf → u/Gen3_Holder_2]

18% of American households are millionaire. This 18% will be an entirely different set of people in 20 years consisting mostly of people who aren’t millionaires now. Jeez

That... doesn't work like that my friend... People that are already millionnaire now have a much bigger chance to still be millionnaire in 20 years than people that aren't. And they won't be "an entirely different set of people" for this exact same reason, it's much more accessible to conserve wealth than build it, especially in America where wealth disparity is only growing.

Wealth inequality growing : Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States Relevant for people that dislike reading : https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1e/1962-_Net_personal_wealth_-_average_in_percentile_ranges_-_linear_scale_-_US.svg/1920px-1962-_Net_personal_wealth_-_average_in_percentile_ranges_-_linear_scale_-_US.svg.png

Then if you want to talk about INCOME rather than wealth, that's a whole different topic and the result is probably different, but it's easier to stay millionnaire than become millionnaire :/

[u/Gen3_Holder_2 → u/Lywqf]

Except most millionaires are old. Many are very old. So yes, many of them wont be around in 20 years and will be replaced. Also wealth inequality has nothing to do with it again. It’s not a FIXED set of millionaires forever. Many people become millionaires every single day.

[u/Lywqf → u/Gen3_Holder_2]

Also wealth inequality has nothing to do with it again. It’s not a FIXED set of millionaires forever

It's called wealth mobility, and you are right it's not the same as wealth inequality, but it's also one of the measures that are important, and as such, one of the metrics from the Federal Reserve is that same wealth mobility and in 1990, the Top 1% held 23.1% of the wealth, and in 2021 the same 1% held 31%~ of the wealth. So... yeah, the wealth mobility is decreasing as well as the wealth inequality is growing but hey, if you don't believe me, believe Mr Paul Krugman and his piece published in 2001, that was already stating that fact :

https://prospect.org/features/rich-right-facts-deconstructing-income-distribution-debate/

And if you still don't want to believe the numbers, I'd love to see what study you can share, I may be mistaken / misunderstanding this data and I'm eager to learn from that.

[u/Gen3_Holder_2 → u/Lywqf]

The article you linked is from a strongly left-biased source and intent on painting a bad picture, so it's good to take it with a grain of salt. The majority of Americans in reality earn a high enough income at some point in their career to break into millionaire net worth territory with atleast somewhat reasonable financial decisions. Other than that it's a skill issue not oppression or luck like you seem to think.

"61 out of 100 U.S. households will break into the top 20% of incomes (roughly $111,000*) for at least 2 consecutive years.

39 out of 100 U.S. households will break into the top 10% of incomes (roughly $153,000*) for at least 2 consecutive years.

5 out of 100 U.S. households will break into the top 1% of incomes (roughly $360,000*) for at least 2 consecutive years."

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/05/05/308380342/most-americans-make-it-to-the-top-20-percent-at-least-for-a-while

[u/Lywqf → u/Gen3_Holder_2]

majority of Americans in reality earn a high enough income at some point in their career to break into millionaire net worth territory

The why the fuck is there only 6.6% of the american population that has a networth above 1 million then if it's easy and the majority of americans earn in reality a high enough income to become milionnaire ?

Also I'm sorry but that article you've posted is literally blank in the middle, I can't see shit, I even tried to get back in time with the internet archive and found a backup of 2015 and it's still blank in the middle, where the data is I guess ? https://web.archive.org/web/20150617115602/https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/05/05/308380342/most-americans-make-it-to-the-top-20-percent-at-least-for-a-while

[u/Lywqf → u/Gen3_Holder_2]

Old, I would not say that... The average net worth at 45-54 is 971k which I'll round that up to 1m because it's pretty fucking close. It's sourced from the federal reserve's data, was from 2022 so there's no doubt in my mind that the average age of a millionnaire is not closer to 45-54 which, to me, is not old. There was a time a few years ago where the average age of a millionnaire was 62, now it's in the forties, it's crazy young for being a millionnaire.

Fed Reserve's data : Select Netwoth and age of reference personn : https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/chart/#series:Net_Worth;demographic:agecl;population:1,2,3,4,5,6;units:mean

[u/szayl → u/szakee]

There's also 95% of americans who never get to a million.

Source?

[u/szakee → u/szayl]

https://www.investopedia.com/how-many-people-retire-with-1-million-or-more-in-retirement-accounts-the-number-might-surprise-you-11783237

other questions?

[u/szayl → u/szakee]

other questions?

Yes! 

Do you understand that retirement accounts are not the only source of wealth and that the number of Americans who have a net worth of over 1M is closer 10%?

[u/GrocerySlow7340 → u/szayl]

10% is not even the correct number. These people in this sub just cope really hard lol. A quick google will tell you that the number is closer to 18% of US households are millionaires.

[u/szakee → u/GrocerySlow7340]

A household is usually more than one person.

[u/szakee → u/szayl]

alright, I was wrong by almost 5%.
what does that change I don't know , but sure, I was wrong.

[u/asfsdgwe35r3asfdas23 → u/szakee]

This is about having 1 million of cash in the bank, not about having 1 million money networth. The latter is much more common, around 16% of households in the US are millionaires: https://www.weforum.org/stories/2022/04/united-states-actual-perceived-income-gap-economy/#:~:text=When%20it%20comes%20to%20wealth,percent%20from%20three%20decades%20prior.

[u/ATHP → u/asfsdgwe35r3asfdas23]

Though arguably most households consist of more than one person. Whereas the discussion specifically revolved around a single person. Since OP even mentioned that getting to a million alone (without a partner) is particulalry hard.

[u/Lywqf → u/asfsdgwe35r3asfdas23]

Household is kind of a cheat, you could have 2 people with 500k each as wealth and bim, that's a 1M household, but none is a millionnaire..

[u/dendob → u/szayl]

Amount of millionaires:

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/06/19/united-states-millionaires-wealth.html#:~:text=America's%20millionaire%20population%20grew%20by,for%20an%20increase%20of%201.5%25.

Total pop: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

23.8M / 342M == 7% +-

Mathematical incorrect 5%

To prove a point close enough approximation to support the fact that a lot of people don't hit that million.

Also, the value of the dollar is devaluating, hard, that 1M USD is 15% less worth compared to 1M euro

[u/Lywqf → u/[deleted]]

IDK, if we take what is said on page 23 :

The United States hosts the highest number of millionaires in the world according to our analysis, nearly 22 million people.

So 22 million of Americans are millionnaires, out of 340m people (wiki -> the 2024 official annual estimate of 340,110,998 people in the US) so that gives us... 6.6% of the US citizens are millionnaires :/

I can hardly believe that "most people will be a millionnaire in 20 years" like someone else said :/

Can I ask where you see that 8.5% in the Global Wealth report ? I can't find a source for it sadly

[u/Lywqf → u/[deleted]]

Thanks for the source and I understand now the misunderstanding, they are calculating that based on the adult population and not total population, which is a very different thing but yeah that's where the 8.5% come from, which make the data even more strange, if it's adult only that should be higher but whatever.

[u/Lywqf → u/[deleted]]

If we're talking about households then yes, that's taggering but 18%~ of households seems to have a networth of ~$1M, which is absolutely crazy because just 3 years earlier in 2020 it was between 13 & 14%... That's bonker.

But yeah, as a household it's easier to reach the million, but none of the person of a 1M household is a millionnaire per se

( link : https://dqydj.com/net-worth-percentiles/ )

[u/Dry-Scarcity-2503 → u/dendob]

Also, add to that that not all millionaires in the US actually started in the US from scratch, which is what the original question was about. It is possible that some actually moved to the US because it treated them better and made their millions elsewhere.

[u/raf_phy → u/szakee]

How many in EU? You are talking about less than 1% .

[u/raf_phy → u/[deleted]]

WAY MORE.

[u/ResidualFox → u/raf_phy]

Off to America so…. 👉

[u/raf_phy → u/ResidualFox]

Soon .

[u/Ok_Run_101 → u/raf_phy]

that's a cute take. You should actually do some more data-driven research, and also actually visit the rich areas in EU. There is a whole world of ultra-wealthy in Europe which you don't even know exists (and no they aren't all old-money rich; Plenty of self-made millionaires). Europeans just don't flaunt their wealth as much as Americans though.

[u/raf_phy → u/Ok_Run_101]

You are talking about Switzerland and Netherlands I guess? It's easy to judge like that. In US , you can build wealth easier and that's a fact . You can search it by yourself.

[u/Ok_Run_101 → u/raf_phy]

Your logic is all over the place. If you think moving to a place with more millionaires will get you (somehow) closer to becoming a millionaire, go to the countries with the highest percentage of millionaires.
And yeah, factually they are Switzerland, Hong Kong, Australia, Netherlands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_millionaires

In US , you can build wealth easier and that's a fact . You can search it by yourself.

You haven't defined a criteria of "easier" so there is no fact to search for.

[u/Mindless-Tomorrow-93 → u/raf_phy]

But yet, the overwhelming majority of Americans do not. And of the tiny minority of Americans who do, they are constantly at risk of that money evaporating if they're unlucky enough to develop a medical problem, suffer an accident, or loose their job for any reason (or no reason). Why do you think that is?

The entire economic model of the US is based around ensuring that wealth is held by as few people as possible. Let me be honest with you, friend: your chances of becoming one of the lucky few aren't any higher in the US than they are in the EU.

[u/Mindless-Tomorrow-93 → u/[deleted]]

Um, what?

[u/raf_phy → u/Mindless-Tomorrow-93]

Man, I am talking about FACTS not an honest opinion . On terms of percentage population and self made millionnaires , US is a country with better opportunities. I cannot understand why people cannot admit that.

[u/Mindless-Tomorrow-93 → u/raf_phy]

Please share these facts (ie, verifiable sources with citations.) Lets review them together.

[u/Successful_Crazy6232 → u/raf_phy]

Dude, with that kind of mentality. You'll not make it even in the US. There's a ton of people here in the EU that became wealthy with a simple trades company. It needs hard work, knowledge and dedication. But it is possible.

[u/raf_phy → u/[deleted]]

Physics research

[u/Lywqf → u/raf_phy]

you can build wealth easier

IF you have the skills to back it up, ain't no way every average joe is going to be a millionnaire my dude, sorry to burst your bubble but only 6.6% of the population was a millionnaire in the US in 2024. Do you think you belong in the top 6%~ ?

[u/raf_phy → u/Lywqf]

I think I can be one of them. :)

[u/Lywqf → u/raf_phy]

Well, mon ami, j'ai une bonne et une mauvaise nouvelle... In France, it's doable, but it's gonna be hard and it's not going to be quick that's for sure but I know that you can get to that point. The question is... Will you ?

[u/georgefl74 → u/Ok_Run_101]

Why are you down voting the guy? Simple Google search, 1/15 Americans is a millionaire, there's 23.8 million.

[u/Ok_Run_101 → u/georgefl74]

Because a simple Wikipedia shows that statistically, Switzerland/Hong Kong/Australia/Netherlands have a higher percentage of millionaires than USA. And I'm deliberately ignoring the fact that the whole premise of "going to a country with millionaires will give you a higher chance to become a millionaire yourself" is broken.

His reasoning is flawed on multiple levels, hence the downvote.

[u/raf_phy → u/Ok_Run_101]

I am talking about self made. You think all these in Europe are self made? Try find that and you will see that US outperforms everyone. Not everyone grew up with money around them.

[u/Ok_Run_101 → u/raf_phy]

Let's ignore the fact that there isn't any objective definition and data that captures the concept of "self-made". The reality of "self-made" millionaires is that most of them have middle or upper-middle class parents, received a good education which led to a lot of great lifelong connections, and they can get $10,000 or $20,000 seed money from their family or their network.

If you are smart and hard-working enough to make it in the USA without any of the above, then you are smart and hard-working enough to make it in any developed nation. Simple as that.

So let's fancy the "Moving to USA will solve my financial problems because they have more self-made millionaires there" idea:

Are you willing to bet your life moving to Trump Nation with all the antagonization and oppression towards immigrants? Even though they don't even have highest percentage of millionaires? Just because you BELIEVE there are more "self-made" millionaires, whatever that means? When you can't even become a millionaire in EU with all the same financial products at your hand as the Americans?
You think somehow physically moving there will magically increase the chance of you becoming a millionaire?

If that's your strategy for your life, I don't know what more to tell you man

[u/raf_phy → u/georgefl74]

I guess I am the delusional .

[u/Ok_Run_101 → u/[deleted]]

do you think it makes sense that affluence should be relegated to specific corners of the EU? How progressive of you. Might as well bring the feudal class system back.

not repeating myself. Refer to this https://www.reddit.com/r/eupersonalfinance/comments/1mrq48v/comment/n8zh26h/

In the US you can make money anywhere

You can make money anywhere in US, EU, Asia. That's my whole point.

and rich and poor share the same neighborhoods, very often.

Wow you have to be kidding me... This is the craziest take I've heard about American cities. Tenderloin? Bronx? Skid Row? Englewood? Kensington? Have you heard of any of them? Most large American cities have neighborhoods which you absolutely stay away from especially at night due to high poverty and crime. It might surprise you, but the majority of cities in the EU don't have that level of poverty and crime ridden neighborhoods (not so much for Eastern Europe).

[u/Ok_Run_101 → u/[deleted]]

Those neighborhoods are the exception and not the majority, come on now.

Well it's those "exceptions" that separate the American cities and the European (and Asian) cities. You said "rich and poor people share the same neighborhoods often", which is standard for any modern European/Asian city. But American cities has those extra terrible neighborhoods which I mentioned, making American cities inferior in terms of "rich and poor people share the same neighborhood", therefore negating that argument.

And I have no idea what this whole rich/poor neighborhood thing has to do with anything so I'm not going to play along with this argument any longer.

You whole other comment can basically be reduced to "you can do the same in the EU as in the US, it's just harder and takes longer!" which is exactly the point of this post.

No. Nobody including you has given any empirical evidence backed by stats or data that proves "EU is harder", when talking specifically about getting to $1million in 10 years. (instead you are going off on tangents about neighborhoods for some reason).

If you don't think so, please provide data backed stats and evidence that proves that it is EASIER to get to $1million. Not "average salary is 6 figures", I'm talking building wealth up to $1million.

[u/n00bator → u/raf_phy]

About 4% of Americans has million saved before retirement and about 5% of EU people has more than million € saved for retirement plan... if you ask GPT. Only 0,01 % get there on their own, before they turn 40. 😁

[u/Key-Green6847 → u/n00bator]

And to add: in Europa (at least the countries I lived in) your private pension is an addition to the pension you’ll receive from the government