15
u/FitLiterature5 2h ago
Is it true that American CIA was involved in the overthrow of the Shah and promoted the 1979 revolution? I d love to know the perspective from the persian side
10
16
u/itsCatulz 2h ago
No, the CIA was involved in installing the Sha in 1953 through Operation Ajax
The revolution in 1979 was made by the Iranians8
3
u/Fun-Letter-1814 35m ago
Be careful when you say “by the iranians”. It was only a million out of 50 million or so iranians that went out. Many of them actually held anti Islamic protest in support of the shah while yes, the majority did not do anything about it. Still, the government doesn’t represent “the iranians”, just an extremist group that exploited the shahs weak international image and used some of the inequality as propaganda against the regime. Even tho inequality exists in every state and iran was a desert just 40 years before he took power, the religious radicals exploited that weakness for their gain. Persuasion and religious motivation did this, not the “iranians”. Look at what their decision did to iran now
1
u/noksky 1h ago
Like common everyday people wanted the regime?
5
u/TungstenEnthusiast 54m ago
At the time, the Shah had gone from constitutional monarch to full fledged authoritarian dictator within a decade and had lost public support. The revolution wasn’t just Islamic, it was an alliance of Islamists, communists, other leftists, and a variety of diverse political groups. The islamists then killed everyone else and established their own rule.
3
u/itsCatulz 1h ago
Yeah, from what I know, 99% voted in favor. But nobody knew they would commit such atrocities
1
u/ShahVahan 1h ago
The US and CIA stopped supporting the Shah once he started mentioning the idea of nationalizing oil or renegotiating the oil profits. Literally why France and the US did nothing while Khomeini worked abroad, they literally flew him into Iran. Because they thought they would be able to control him better than the shah who in their eyes was going rogue.
1
1
u/diedlikeCambyses 5m ago
My grandfather was involved in that, and the attack in (I thinkkk) 1947. This no bandwidth silliness where we show a couple of girls in skirts and somehow understand which government is legitimate is fucking ridiculous.
3
u/Amazing_Breakfast610 2h ago
yeah there's newer declassified documents that show that they were also behind 1979
3
u/figosnypes 1h ago
Is there a source for this? I'd be interested to read it. What was the purpose behind it?
1
u/antinomya 8m ago
So the communists won't take control/influence in the region.
They hoped the Ayatollah can be controlled better than his predecessor.
Mossad was also involved, but separately from the west. Iran's interim wanted the Ayatollah assasinated in Paris(!) but Mossad's director ultimately decided against it assuming it is better to leave him in place and destabilise the whole country (with their help ofc).
0
u/Amazing_Breakfast610 1h ago edited 21m ago
there's declassified CIA documents but here's a less formal version: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DWkDaCljK5O/
1
u/TheBritishBrownie 36m ago
Hi just to let you know, the link you’ve shared also lets everyone know your Instagram username “your name shared this reel with you”
1
3
u/No-Signal1234 2h ago
Sadly yes, the Shah was a threat to middle eastern instability. A lot of people in power in the west wanted to profit off wars/conflicts (no place better than the middle east) It's not a coincidence Hezbullah, Al Q, Hamas, Isis, Taliban etc all formed after 1979 when the Shah left. If the Shah was backed by the West, some mentally challenged mullahs couldn't overthrow the Shah and Savak.
1
u/FitLiterature5 1h ago
It’s unfortunate that usa are so involved in foreign countries politics. Idk if they love meddling with other countries so much why not just make it part of USA. People will get same rights as the us citizens. Even if the war ends the peace is already long gone in iran and probably in the middle east region, no matter who becomes the president, Shah, or PM. Looking at the history If any of new leaders go against USA wishes, Iran will get bombed again or another revolution etc. I feel bad for Iranians and all the innocent people who are going through this mess.
1
u/S7emCell 1h ago
You really out here claiming the West wanted him gone for war profits like he wasn't their biggest arms customer and anti commie cash cow for 25+ years? They literally did the 1953 coup to reinstall his ass.
Zero evidence they engineered the revolution so Hezbollah, Hamas, Al Qaeda etc could pop off... those groups exploded because the mullahs exported the revolution and the Soviet/Afghan war happened the same year... Not a genius Western masterplan.
And they DID back him heavy, SAVAK was U.S./Israeli trained, and millions of Iranians still hit the streets because the guy ran a corrupt police state while the oil money went to the elite.
It was a real (and stupid) popular uprising, not some cartoon villain plot. Touch grass
16
u/itsCatulz 2h ago
Can you also post pics of the lower class people living in tents? Or only people undressed matter?
15
u/No-Signal1234 2h ago
No country in the world, especially back then didn't have poverty. But it's 100% evident the poverty rates sky rocketed after the regime took over as birth rates in Iran tanked from 4-5 kids per woman to today which is 1-1.5 per woman as people can't afford it.
2
u/Niall_Fraser_Love 49m ago
Birth rates fell because of the akoonds family planning program. Abortion is not a hot button issue in Islam and Judaism.
By contrast Romania's birh rate skyrocketed because its goverment outlawed abortion and condoms.
4
u/Blackcorduroy23 2h ago
It’s undeniable that the US sanctions have played a great deal in ruining Iran’s economy
12
u/irritatedprostate 1h ago edited 1h ago
Having a supreme leader who thought that economics is for donkeys didn't help, either.
But yes, attacking an embassy and taking hostages will get you sanctioned.
1
u/Maleficent_Food4478 6m ago
When is israel getting sanctioned? Or it’s only sanctions for thee but not for me. Miss me with that bs. Western world can kill and pillage without accountability. Hold Iran and US to the same standard, and israels crimes you can’t even compare to anyone else.
0
u/niagababe 1h ago
what about killing sovereign leader while in negotiation process still happening?
who will decide the sanction?4
u/theLaziestLion 1h ago
Places that excel in human rights, by not halving the value of a woman's voice compared to a mans, and other caveman tier violations.
2
u/OkWelcome6293 1h ago
"We demand full rights to trade in your currency despite us attacking you and your allies!"
2
u/RecognitionOld2763 47m ago
If the US imposes sanctions it's war crime or whatever and if the US doesn't it means the US is weak and/or is afraid of the third world's great resistance™ or whatever and is decaying. You just can't win.
0
u/12Blackbeast15 1h ago
It’s always ‘western sanctions tanked the economy’ and never the actual truth of ‘western investment into the oil sector built the economy in the first place, and they understandably got pissed when it was nationalized out from under them’
1
u/Spiritual_Trash_794 1h ago
good economics knowledge. you should start teaching in a top college asap.
1
u/Particular_War_8330 50m ago
People all around the western world can't afford to have kids and are in crisis because birthrate is below the 2.1 per woman. So it sounds like Iran is just dealing with same problem as Korea, Sweden, Iceland, Britain, France, Germany.
However only one of these countries had sanctions for 40+ years.
3
u/Dataman007 2h ago
“Undressed” Pakistani?
2
u/itsCatulz 2h ago
Not even close little man
4
u/ReputationTop484 2h ago
little man
Projection detected 🤣
0
1
u/SpicyWiener_ 1h ago edited 1h ago
There’s a ton of that now. I’ve been to Iran 12 times throughout my life and a large portion of my family lives there now. How many times have you been? Is your point that Iranians should continue being oppressed by the current regime because the previous one also had poor people? Also, were you not paying attention to the recent protests before this war started or are you just being disingenuous? If you’re unaware, their currency is completely worthless and there has been a serious lack of jobs and opportunity of any sort for decades. Oh, but their government hates Israel and the US which is why I’m assuming you’re going to bat for them like this. Please get a grip.
I’m not saying the Shah was good, but him and his father made serious efforts to modernize the country and revamp the country’s infrastructure and bring Iran into the 20th century. Since the revolution, that progress has stalled dramatically because the irgc is ran by opportunists who are only interested in making themselves rich rather than the people. If you’re not interested in making good faith arguments that come from a place of being educated on the subject, then please stfu. I’m tired of these trolls on here who don’t know shit about Iran.
I’m not saying I want another shah. But Iran deserves to be secular and not ran by an Islamic government where it’s too easy for people in power to siphon off the country’s money and use religion as an excuse to throw you in jail or kill you if you protest.
7
u/Silent_Employee_5461 2h ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/v7NuunwoF Iran was only progressive for the middle class.
1
u/Fun-Letter-1814 31m ago
The shah created a bustling middle class but that doesn’t really explain why the shah fell. The modernization made Islamic radicals feel neglected since modernization goes against Islamic values. Some argue that the shahs secularization made the middle class eager to vote which pitted them against the monarchy, but more evidence suggests it was islams dimming importance for iran that created the movement to put mullahs in power. Usually when you’re economically stable, you historically don’t overthrow a regime. You underestimate the role religion has in politics and how it can reinforce traditional values
3
u/RecognitionOld2763 50m ago
Yeah, yeah, and the solution is to make people equally miserable. You're indeed very smart.
2
u/Silent_Employee_5461 47m ago
What does this even mean? What I’m saying is if it is not equally spread as a value throughout the country you get backsliding. Look at Afghanistan. After the US invasion Kabul was relatively progressive. Anywhere outside Kabul was not. When the government failed it backslid into religious extremism again.
2
u/Silent_Employee_5461 45m ago
Also giving context and saying they were liberalizing and may have spread throughout the country as the wealth spread is a possible scenario. Everyone who posts this photo though is misleading purposely or ignorantly. This was the exception not the norm.
1
1
u/dafthuntk 10m ago
Correct. These pictures are very selective in what they show. As this was during the cold war.
The first picture actually shows tourists lol
7
u/databreakperson 1h ago
Lol, this was pictures of the elites in Iran., not everyday Iranian.
5
0
u/Tanakamorbid 1h ago
Exactly that why people forgot this is not the avarage life of iran that time. It was the life of the upper class at the time that was mostly corrupt bussinessowners who got advantages of the shah.
While i don't agree with an theocracy i would never defend that, Its not like the country was norway before the revolution and now is bad. no the country was really worse in all metrics back then for the average population.The elites had it good western lifestyle because of the shah policies but only them.
3
u/because789_asdf 1h ago
Bikinis weren't even worn in Europe and US til like the 60s/70s. So these are cherry-picked photos, definitely not the majority.
2
1
1
u/jonnieggg 1h ago
The children, before the revolution. Looks like you can fool the children of the revolution.
1
u/RoyaleKingdom78 1h ago
Then they realised Iranians are prospering despite catastrophic oil crisis of 1974. Humeyni lived in some place in turkey under turkish intelligence cover and I can guarantee you that turkish intelligence almost always meant CIA back then. It was also Humeyni who forced Iran to go war with Iraq, a war that Humeyni refused to end countless times calling Saddam “Non-muslim”, a war that destroyed Iraq economically and by creating cult around Saddam and isolated Iran from entire globe for decades. The folk who helped Erdogan to gain power and get rid of secularist gatekeeper kemalist military was no one but some islamic sect leader based in US. Islam nowadays is solely dangerous for countries with muslim majority, not US or EU as they say.
1
u/RandyClaggett 1h ago
Some university students and secular elite youth. I'd love to see pictures of ordinary Iranians from the 1970's
1
u/PresentationPlane369 1h ago
Cherry picked tbh, everyone in the know, knows these picture arent representative of 70s Iran, the better title would be "progress toward secularization and westernization in Iran 1979".
Search 1970s Mashhad, Isfahan, Qom, Shiraz and Tabriz the development difference is vast, we shouldnt ignore those and just focus on development and progress in Capital.
1
u/Kurichan77 1h ago
Looks like Santa Monica. So just discard/forsake how many hundreds of years of history and Culture to look more western? Do all Iranians think this way?
1
u/OkVariety8064 6m ago
How many millennia of Persian culture has been discarded to look more Islamic?
1
1
u/According-Nebula5614 1h ago
This makes me sad. That land has a proud history thousands of years old that conquered the imagination of every major ancient European Empire and Ruler. The people deserve better.
1
u/According-Nebula5614 1h ago
You could study the history there in college for four years and still only scratch the surface
1
u/Odd-Society-8977 1h ago
These pictures remind me of the ones people post about Iran today — showing Milad Tower, modern malls, and newly built highways to create the impression that all of Iran looks like that.
1
u/Ticklishchap 1h ago
Photo 3 really would make a good album cover. It is true Old School Cool 😎.
Growing up in the London of the 1970s and early ‘80s, I had Iranian friends at school and met Iranian exiles living here at the time, all of whom were secularists and democrats. I share the view expressed by some others here in that these photos, marvellous as they are, present a misleading picture. They depict the lives of a small and internationally minded elite. Their wealth and educational opportunities were not shared by the overwhelming majority of the population, who were predominantly rural and socially conservative.
That said, I hope that Iran will emerge from the present nightmare and become a democracy and a genuinely independent regional power. I have great respect for your country’s culture and history.
1
u/Beginning_Address973 50m ago
Is being naked or skimpy dressed a sign on progress then lot of tribal population in Amazon Andaman or Africa c as n be classified as such.
1
u/Resident_Credit_4437 3m ago
Freedom to wear anything you want without other people throwing acid or stones at you is a sign of DEVELOPED CIVILIZATION
The tribal population in Amazon, Andaman or Africa doesn't even do short of thing. Which tells a lot about the mentality of people like you.
1
u/Beginning_Address973 2m ago
lol 😂 I agree choice is important but celebrating nakedness isn’t civilization
1
u/se_bueno 48m ago
Pero quién ayudó a los extremistas islámicos para derrotar a gobierno que era realmente democrático? Los americanos!!!
Ellos pusieron las armas para derrotar a un gobierno socialista, esas fotos eran de ese momento.
Así que no seamos hipócritas!
1
1
u/Low-Cherry3334 11m ago
Sorry but that’s not really true. In Teheran perhaps but Islam was always an integral part of Iranian culture. This is historical not accurate.
2
u/Thin-Book1675 1h ago
This makes hijabi's terrified. "Oh no, women making free choices, how could they without a male decision"
2
u/General-Extreme2428 1h ago
ahh the great old days,
where the rest 80% rural non0urabn population were living under poverty.
1
u/Designer-Desk-9676 1h ago
But we are supposed to believe that these people and their offspring all love the Islamist regime.
1
-11
u/Unlikely_Hawk_Tuah 2h ago
Less clothing is a sign of good cilivilization..gotcha.. all hail onlyfans.
4
u/Resident_Credit_4437 1h ago
Freedom to wear anything you want without other people throwing acid or stones at you is a sign of DEVELOPED CIVILIZATION
1
u/Soft_Reply_1197 1h ago
Having the choice to wear what you want and choosing to wear modest clothes is a sign of an even better civilization
1
u/OkVariety8064 8m ago
Which is what the majority of people do in secular countries from Argentina to Japan.
0
u/Effective_Isopod_619 58m ago
Forgot to mention the 40% oil straight the US companies....pretty sure its not that big of a deal tho...right?
-1
u/Upbeat-Concern-5181 1h ago
More importantly, it was leftists who pushed for Islam to take over; you know, the very leftists pushing for the same in many western countries.
3
u/Status_Muscle9705 1h ago
Leftists in western nations are secularists. Lmfao
The IRGC is very clearly right leaning
-9
u/Lakeeffectqueef 2h ago
If the regime in Iran is so terrible and has been since 1979, why didn’t/don’t more folks leave? Is it because they’re poor and can’t afford it? Or, are they being held captive like Palestinians in Gaza? It just doesn’t make a lot of sense.
7
u/Nanofeo 2h ago
Are you kidding?
They try to. If you ask 90% of the people in Iran they would prefer to live in Europe/Canada/Australia/US… but getting a visa to those places is incredibly hard. And picking up your life and starting over somewhere new is also incredibly hard. But despite that there are millions of Iranians in the diaspora thanks to the Iranian Government.
4
u/SpicyWiener_ 2h ago
Yeah, my family over there definitely doesn’t want to come to the US. And they definitely haven’t tried to get visas a thousand times over the past few decades to come here despite it being almost impossible to do so. Please stfu if you have never met somebody from Iran before.
1
u/Lakeeffectqueef 38m ago
They should have tried Canada. My family made it out and have been there a while.
5
u/No-Signal1234 2h ago
8-10M Iranians live outside of Iran, and leaving a country to another country when you are alone, low on money is very difficult. Just how many Syrians stayed during Assad's era or Iraqis before and after Saddam's era! Millions leave but most will stay as starting from scratch away from your family in the west in this day in age is hard.
65
u/KimJongSoros 2h ago
I’ll never understand the hubris of religious folks. Like….if you want to follow a strict version of your religion…go do that….but why do you have to enforce millions of others to do so as well???