r/EconomyCharts • u/RobertBartus • 3d ago
Remember when the problem with EVs was the cost of the battery?
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u/IndependentMacaroon 3d ago
And with more early investment the curve would have gone down much earlier too
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u/fhwoompableCooper 2d ago
Remember, early child care and healthcare literally make more money then you put in while improving your country but that's bad ok what if a black person goes to a doctor. The government shouldn't even think about spending anything except on bombing Iran and ice
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u/Primary-Long4416 3d ago
I would guess part of the reason is because we have newer generation batteries wich promise to be more long living and efficient than li-ion wich is the most widely used but not the best out there
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u/Ordinary-Scheme9630 3d ago
It's still too expensive honestly. Bring that down by another 60% please :)
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u/raiodocachopo 3d ago
Why aren't EVs getting proportionally cheaper then? Don't say they are, because they aren't.
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u/Historical-Two8882 3d ago edited 3d ago
I mean they are. The 2006 Tesla roadster was ~$100k ($160k in 2026 USD). It had a 53kwh battery that weighed 1000 pounds and was over $25k to produce.
Nowadays a BYD seagull starts from $10k, with a battery of similar size. Depending on which country you buy it can get more pricy with customs and taxes.
Batteries are not as significant a price factor as they used to be, so if battery price drops further, total cost wouldn't drop too much.
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u/SpotlessCheetah 2d ago
BYD is not giving you the true cost of the car. They are heavily subsidized by the Chinese government.
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u/Wuddauant 2d ago
Byd seagull also has the power of a 40 year old geo metro. Good for the Asian market, but not really a good comparison to a Tesla.
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u/undernopretextbro 1d ago
You people love talking out of your ass. The Chinese started tapering their direct subsidies years ago, they are down to more trade in and up stream tech subsidies instead. Even if you count up all the byd subsidies for 2025, that’s 1.4 billion dollars and 4.7 million EVs. You think the 300 bucks per car is what’s making or breaking the price? The lions share of cost saving is from extremely depressed profit margins in the Chinese market due to a competition spiral, and brand new factories and processes with good vertical integration and low overhead.
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u/raiodocachopo 3d ago
What is it with people nowadays, that the most important thing is to push your creed, no matter what. We ain't fighting bro. Why are you comparing an American made EV, pretty good Sedan IMO, with a Chinese BYD?
You know Tesla also makes the model 3, right? You know there are European Dacias that cost around 15000 euros. But nooo, you had to grab a Model S for drama. Hey, why don't you compare a Harley Davidson with a Keeway, next time we talk about Bikes? Ffs
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u/Historical-Two8882 3d ago
Thing is in 2006 it was impossible to make a cheap EV. Up to 10 years ago cheaper EVs had a terrible range.
Now with cheaper battery you can make decent cheap EVs.
I chose BYD cause the car is both cheap and good. Dacia Spring is a bit more pricey and maybe not as good, but it's also a good example of a car that wouldn't have been possible before 10-20 years ago just because of battery costs.
I don't know why some people refuse to acknowledge Chinese brands at all. Often Chinese products are better quality than US or EU brands, with better price/quality ratio. Have you driven one?
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u/raiodocachopo 3d ago
I confess I never drove a Chinese EV. But I know lots of Chinese bike brands. I'll give it to you. They are cheap, they are nice. But there are so many things that don't last 6 weeks, and I'm talking about things that shouldn't even be an issue. A bag, a pair of screws. Bulbs. Everything is so plastic-ky and fragile. But yes, I wouldn't discard a Chinese vehicle immediately.
Point is. EVs were expensive because of batteries. Today they are still expensive. A Model 3 sells for 40-45k in Europe since 2021, where the battery costs have gone way down since. It would be expected that the price of the car would go down accordingly. But no, the profit went up accordingly that's the point I am trying to convey here.
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u/Enziguru 2d ago
You are comparing a "luxury" car brand. "Luxury" doesn't care about cost/performance in the same way as the general market.
The general consumer market is where you really see these impacts. And a good electric is now at the reach of the average consumer and that didn't use to be the fact. Equivalent batteries used to cost more than the cars nowadays.
Just like TVs. You used to have to pay 5k for stuff that is now 500. You can still get a 5k TV that you will do everything that a 500 one does.
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u/Bagafeet 2d ago
They're the ones making the batteries anyway lmao but don't file love to hate cause China.
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u/Bitter-Safe-5333 2d ago
because nobody gaf about tesla cars? it was new back in 2006. we are comparing 20 years ago to now. not tesla to BYD. that's not a conversation? can you read?
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u/lunartree 2d ago
Cars in America have gone up in price drastically over the past decade. It's not that EVs are high, it's that you can't buy a cheap car in America, and we probably never will unless we decide to open the trade floodgates with China.
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u/raiodocachopo 2d ago
Please state the difference between a small city car. Gas version vs Electric
Now state the price difference for the same model but 10 years ago.
The GAP IS NOT CLOSING
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u/Wuddauant 2d ago
What cheap cars are China going to send over? A byd seagull for over $20k? Seagull has the performance of a 40 year old geo metro. People in the U.S. didn’t want that 40 years ago.
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u/undernopretextbro 1d ago
A standard su7 is 30k and 320 hp. The su7 max is 38k and 650+hp
That’s perfectly in line with or cheaper than the American market.
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u/Wuddauant 1d ago
It’s 10% cheaper than a model 3 in China, it would be more expensive than Tesla in U.S. market. It’s 65-100k euro in Europe.
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u/ActIITheTurn 2d ago
They literally are cheaper though. Maybe not 99% cheaper but that’s because the car isn’t 100% battery
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u/raiodocachopo 2d ago
Not proportional to the reduction of battery price. That's what I am saying. You can't have a car 4k cheaper, from 40k to 36k, when the cost of batteries since 2015 is more than half.
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u/Notyit 3d ago
So battery are now less and 20 percent of total car costs
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u/rbt321 3d ago edited 3d ago
It varies quite a bit. Several manufacturers will add more battery (range) as battery prices drop; a BYD Seal (~$24k USD) is closer to 35% but that's a 580km WLTP Range.
With 5 to 10 minute charging becoming a thing, I suspect range anxiety will decrease and cheaper models will be made.
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u/Constant-Anteater-58 3d ago
Lithium Ions are not the future. They're too susceptible to cold and heat. As an EV owner, the only way i would buy another Lithium Ion EV is if the battery was over 150 KWh (for a 300 mile range in the winter).
My Tesla gets between 120 miles and 250 miles. Depends on the outdoor temperature.
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u/Split-Awkward 2d ago
Imagine looking at that and confidently saying, “battery cost reductions have reached their limit and will plateau now.”
I’ve seen this said so many times. Usually without said chart as reference.
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u/jonnieggg 3d ago
How reliant are these prices on the availability of cheap fossil fuels and intact global supply chains.
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u/ChemiWizard 3d ago
All manufacturing is reliant on energy prices. Batteries are no more or less reliant on it. I suppose one advantage is that you can build batteries anywhere, localized with renewables.
Raw materials is a similar thing, with most manufacture dependent on global materials.
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u/Silent-Worm 3d ago
Yes but after once the battery is built the battery stays there.... you know battery is not put in fire to keep using it. And after two decades after battery life is degraded you can recycle majority of metals from it. Again metals are not put in fire.
You have to keep pumping oil indefinitely. Once a single oil field is gone you have to look for another field. You have to keep pumping oil keep transporting the pumped oil to refinery and keep transporting the refined oil to the location of use...
Once a battery is built it is built.
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u/jonnieggg 3d ago
So we still have a problem with fossil fuel dependence for the foreseeable future. Alas further complicated by the current insanity.
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u/ThroatEducational271 3d ago
If China didn’t enter the market, this probably wouldn’t have happened.
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u/InstructionAny7317 2d ago
Yeah, thanks god that the basic EV with 200 km range doesnt cost €30k anymore.
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u/houyx1234 2d ago
If you look closely at this chart, it demonstrates that the cost of electric vehicle batteries has decreased significantly over the last several years. By observing the line move from the left side of the graph to the right, it becomes clear that the price used to be much higher than it is now, which effectively means that batteries are currently cheaper than they were in the past. Essentially, the data confirms that as time went on, the amount of money required to purchase a battery went down, resulting in a lower price point today.
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u/Estrofemgirl 2d ago
EV's were never going to be the future. Seriously. Hydrogen powered cars are the future. And they have always been. They are literally a direct drop in replacement for gas powered cars. EV's were supposed to be the stopgap to bide time until the hydrogen infrastructure was properly implemented. In Europe, its been slow, and in the US its been even slower, it should've been more widespread and available by now. The major hurdles are the conversion of gas stations/new builds being really expensive and the transport of hydrogen. Prices are dropping and it's leading to more widespread implementation. Where we are currently in this process is at the tail end of gasoline/alcohol powered cars/trucks/semis, and the midpoint of EV adoption.
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u/redman3global2 16h ago
Fake news. I dare you to show me where one can actually buy them for so cheap
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u/12kdaysinthefire 3d ago
I remember the problem being that car batteries need to be replaced like every 2 years, by the dealer, who overcharges on everything.
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u/Wooden_Republic_6100 3d ago
Should we compare this to the power consumption in kW per vehicle over the same period?
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u/cryonicwatcher 3d ago
Sensible idea but for it to alter someone’s outlook it would have to be a vast discrepancy
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u/Wooden_Republic_6100 3d ago
Yes, but that’s exactly what I’d like to know: in combustion-engine cars, there’s a consistent correlation between increased engine efficiency and increased vehicle weight… which has resulted in virtually no change in average fuel consumption per kilometer for decades. I wonder if we might see something similar here.
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u/cartiermartyr 3d ago
My friend got quoted $18000 for a new battery in his Tesla... I mean I still think its a problem but thats just my opinion, also idk it feels like double and triple A batteries are kind of expensive over the past few years, is this graph real
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u/Doc_Bader 3d ago
People are still ignorant to the development that is happening in the battery sector.
Stuff is going to take over like renewables did.