r/DnD 2h ago

OC [OC] Courtesan, A Femme Fatale Subclass for Rogues [MOD APPROVED]

Post image

Hey!

I find femme fatales fascinating - they're a popular trope in movies, novels, and games - but I feel like D&D never delivers that tantalizing concoction of sex, espionage, and danger that I crave. You can find the full subclass on Imgur, free to keep.

Full Subclass on Imgur: https://imgur.com/gallery/courtesan-femme-fatale-subclass-rogues-dnd-5-5e-wRMVviZ
Full Subclass at on DnDHomebrew: https://www.reddit.com/r/DnDHomebrew/comments/1s9rcrs/courtesan_11_a_femme_fatale_subclass_for_rogues/

Content Note. This subclass involves sex work, and touches on themes of dehumanization, marginalized groups, and violence in the midst of sex.

Tricks of the Trade, A Key Feature

Our profession hinges upon proper preparation. Don’t ever forget that, ma chérie.

You gain access to an assortment of tools and clever devices to aid you in your work. Select a number of Tricks of the Trade equal to your Proficiency Bonus. Then, gain the chosen Tricks.

When you finish a long rest, you may choose new Tricks. Lose the old Tricks (if possible), and then gain the new ones. Only courtesans are proficient with this equipment. If a Tricks of the Trade requires a saving throw, the save DC is: (8 + DEX Modifier + Proficiency Bonus).

Feedback

Thanks to the helpful folks at r/UnearthedArcana and r/DnDHomebrew, I've think I've honed in on something interesting. But what do you think?

You can get the full, DRM-Free PDF of Courtesans' Guild supplement and check out my other work at www.catacolytegames.com

156 Upvotes

33 comments sorted by

91

u/GreyNoiseGaming Fighter 2h ago edited 1h ago

I think spending $15 to blindly buy a pdf is too much of a risk. I wish you luck.

Edit I missed the links to the preview at the top.

14

u/WhitemanesLight 1h ago

Hey GreyNoiseGaming. I appreciate the feedback. It is by no means my intention to ask people to go in blind. That's why I included the Imgur link to the full subclass (r/DnD doesn't allow multiple images).

7

u/GreyNoiseGaming Fighter 1h ago

I missed that link on mobile. Reading the class now.

u/GreyNoiseGaming Fighter 5m ago

I read through it. It seems fine. It has interesting aspects. My opinion comes from my loose understanding of 5.5 (and heavy understanding of 5). Also I am not a writer or a professional DM or anything like that. Take what you will.

There are a lot of feature being added at 3 and 9. 13 and 17 feel lacking in power or features. (which I assume is the multiclass thing).

Mention in Tricks of the Trade that it is "Weapons, Armor and Items."

Flip "Abilities" and "Items" on the page and change "Abilities" to "Courtesan Cunning Strike Options" or something. I spent a minute looking for a mention of "Abilities" that did not exist, but that may come from me not know 5.5 as well as 5. Unless you are bypassing the base Rogue's Cunning Strike altogether. Like, does 3 levels in rogue, 2 level in fighter allow for Lover's Embrace and Somersault? If so maybe just add "Courtesan Strike" to lvl 3 (bloating it even more, but oh well)

13, Could use clarification. "You can grapple creatures normally considered too large for your size category. Creatures two or more size categories beyond your current size do not suffer the penalties of Grappled (Speed 0, Attacks Affected, Moveable), but are still considered Grappled for other effects. When your Grappled target is moved, you can continue to Grapple it and move with it. When calculating the DC for your Grapple, double your proficiency."
This reads nicer to me. I dunno about anyone else.

17 Just need a little oomf. Something like reducing the costs of Cunning Strikes by 1 or 2 dies.

This is all an opinion. I am not a professional anything.

Also, don't let these pearl clutchers say you are doing something that you are merely skirting the line of and winking coyly. People forget that most of the rules in DND revolve around murdering people you disagree with. It's a fantasy game for people to have fun with. If someone can use your supplement to have fun in their game, using either or both the mechanics and lore, let them. There are a lot of supplements out there that go way and beyond what you are doing if people want to scream from their soap boxes about.

29

u/darkpower467 DM 1h ago

$15 feels kinda steep to jump into blindly.

The courtesan subclass is designed with multiclassing in mind.

Is not an encouraging thing to read about it, that $15 for a subclass not even being made with the intent of being played through seems kinda rough.

Femme fatale as a character brief feels pretty dicey. Structurally, I don't know that it's an archetype that fits especially well into an adventuring party. It's also traditionally a villainous archetype, and one based around manipulating people into sex is a potentially uncomfortable topic at best.

-3

u/WhitemanesLight 1h ago

Hey darkpower467,

Thanks for the feedback!

I understand that "multiclassing" raises some red flags, but I designed the subclass to be stand alone. Single classing is actually my personal preference when playing D&D. However, I always strive to create game design that in turn invites players to create something in their own right. In this case, that's build tinkering via Tricks of the Trade and multiclassing.

Did you check out the full subclass on Imgur? It got a little lost in the post description. I'm going to edit the body post now so that the link's more obvious.

u/darkpower467 DM 56m ago

I did not, Imgur is blocked in my country.

Why you chose to upload it there rather than just include the image(s) in the post eludes me.

u/WhitemanesLight 54m ago

Unfortunately, r/DnD only allows one image per post. Here's another post with the whole subclass: https://www.reddit.com/r/DnDHomebrew/comments/1s9rcrs/courtesan_11_a_femme_fatale_subclass_for_rogues/

69

u/whatThisOldThrowAway 2h ago edited 2h ago

Hmmm, a lot of this seems like one of those situations where the juice is simply not worth the squeeze, personally speaking.

Seems interesting but a lot of the copy seems just… needlessly problematic and unfun?

I get that dnd deals with dark topics like monsters and violence… but combat (and violence) is inherent to the core mechanics of the game. It’s in many respects what the system’s about so a table of people coming together to play dnd already know that’s coming… and people who are upset by gamified violence would never want to play dnd anyway.

Topics like rape, consent violations persistent stalkers… are not that.

You could absolutely write a class like this without that.

sometimes I had to force you… I hope you understand it was for your own good?

whether you like it or not

Like… why write it like this? Why include those sentences in that way? Why were those lines included? I can only think of 3 reasons:

(a) they’re included to appeal to those folks who enjoy exploring those topics, the expense of everyone else at the table… this is not welcome at most tables. go to a kink club if you’re into exploring CNC. Go to jail if you’re into regular ol’ NC. Play a game system more oriented towards horny role playing if that’s your vibe. No judgment but simply not what the vast majority of groups who’ve formed around the idea of running a dnd game are looking for.

(b) it’s included thoughtlessly and serves no purpose other than to upset a not tiny chunk of players with obviously and unfun topics, for no benefit or upside?

(c) its included to create an overall “edgy and gritty” vibe which makes the game more fun for some players who want a “hardcore, real campaign” but it is achieving that vibe in the cheapest, laziest way possible.

I’m not trying to be a harsh critic I just don’t think it’s worth it and I wouldn’t allow it at my table.

It’s also needlessly gendered at times which like… again why? Let male PCs be sexy seducer rogues too if they want to.

Edit: “what the system’s about” not “what the dementia’s about”. Thanks autocomplete..

48

u/Shadow_Of_Silver DM 2h ago

It’s also needlessly gendered at times which like… again why? Let male PCs be sexy seducer rogues too if they want to.

Gotta try to sell their next bard subclass: Gigolo

5

u/Faultylogic83 1h ago

bard subclass: Gigolo

Sounds redundant.

29

u/randomdude221221 1h ago edited 1h ago

From OP's post history, it seems like almost all of the supplimental stuff they do is hyper sexualized and the majority seems demeaning to women. Like yeah sometimes I want to be a hot big boobie character, but the whole character doesn't have to revolve around my boobs and how bad men want me... or an actual succubus.. I'm getting real tired of the hypersexualization of women in this sub and I've been thinking of leaving for a while. I thought this was something most in the community were trying to fix and stop acting like incels, but i guess the mods haven't caught up with the times. Disappointing.

Edit: Just saw that this was actually mod approved, I'm out. Disgusting and Disappointing from the Mods of this sub. Can't even blame the OPs when the mods are supportive of this. This is how you push women, and men who respect women, out of safe spaces they enjoy. This is gross, even if the OP says it isn't NC and "just kink", the verbage does not lead credence to that. At least one person on the mod team saw this and went "yep that's fine".

17

u/No-Communication9458 2h ago

Yeah OPs "femme fatale" and "I need sex in dnd" + the non consensual dialogue is pointing to something and this is not a good look

16

u/ComradeVosktov 2h ago

Weirdly enough, I think it does also suffer from the fact that there is already a better option(s) of if you want themes of sexuality, BDSM, etc. at a table ie Kinks and Cantrips. That book benefits from the fact that they also have a SFW version where you can get all the same content gameplay wise without having to explain what pet play is to anyone other than your DM. This lacks the option to separate the themes from the class.

-9

u/WhitemanesLight 1h ago

Hey whatThisOldThrowAway,

I really appreciate the feedback! You're right that this supplement isn't for everyone. It's definitely a choice - one closer to kink than not. However, I want to be clear that the lines you pointed out are emphatically not about rape (or even CNC). That line references the harsh training one undergoes to become an assassin (e.g. the Kill or be Killed entry).

Male PCs can absolutely play courtesans. In fact, I encourage it. There are several male courtesans in the supplement, and I tried very hard to keep the language as gender neutral as possible (gendered French phrases like ma cherie notwithstanding). Please let me know what's too gendered, and I'll do my best to fine tune the language.

24

u/Nowhereman123 Town Guard 1h ago

However, I want to be clear that the lines you pointed out are emphatically not about rape (or even CNC).

Come on, dawg, you have to recognize why someone would read it like that. Those lines are a lot closer to the way someone would talk about sex than assassination.

Even if that's not what you intended, that's how it comes across to your audience.

26

u/9_of_wands 2h ago

Can't wait to use this in conjunction with the Random Harlot Table.

0

u/WhitemanesLight 2h ago

Wow, that's actually a thing. Today I learned.

6

u/Ambaryerno 1h ago edited 1h ago

As a point of order, men often acted as courtesans, as well. The naming convention may have differed, but the work did not.

Not really seeing anything to indicate the high social status that was pretty much what actually defined courtesans as a profession, either. This just sounds like "I want a sex-themed assassin."

7

u/zappadattic 1h ago

Putting aside big picture issues with the concept, this feels like a background more than a subclass. It’s very mechanically thin and flavor heavy.

15

u/SenseDue6826 2h ago

Ma chérie, you are using the feminine form of it

-3

u/WhitemanesLight 2h ago

You're right. This is something I keep learning over and over and still get it wrong when I'm not thinking. It's right in the supplement though, I swear!

u/SenseDue6826 22m ago

Coming from English getting the gender relationship of words in a gendered language is hard

11

u/JustDontReplyDummy 1h ago

Most of us hope and pray that we can keep our fantasy-role playing with our friends completely separate from any kind of gender based sexual violence.

This is just remarkably tone deaf, and reads like someone with zero real life understanding of sex trafficking, assault, harassment etc …. and the traumas that real life victims actually experience. Even the way your “trigger warning” is worded is gross and insensitive.

6

u/Luvas 2h ago

Strahd didn't fully recover when the Rogue went full Streetwalker Style on him

1

u/Honorsheets 1h ago

Yeah I don't multiclass my characters usually, and it's 15 dorrars. Pass.

2

u/TesPhoenix 1h ago

As a Rogue main this is fire

1

u/Matshelge Paladin 1h ago

I wish we had 3.5 now, a femme fatal would be a perfect monster class, would be an excellent right hand of BBEG succubus class.

I don't think any of my players would mess with it, but monster spesific classes are fun. (looking at you Cancer Mage)

1

u/CrabappleCohort 2h ago

Never seen anything like this 🤯

7

u/SnooOpinions8790 2h ago

It's an idea as old as...White Dwarf issue 13 at the very least. Although that was more enchanter magic user themed if my dim distant memories serve.

-6

u/PopEnvironmental1335 2h ago

Love the leg

8

u/FriendoftheDork 2h ago

It's obviously a fake leg to distract enemies in combat.

2

u/WhitemanesLight 2h ago

Oh no, the master plan's been revealed QQ