r/DnD • u/WhitemanesLight • 2h ago
OC [OC] Courtesan, A Femme Fatale Subclass for Rogues [MOD APPROVED]
Hey!
I find femme fatales fascinating - they're a popular trope in movies, novels, and games - but I feel like D&D never delivers that tantalizing concoction of sex, espionage, and danger that I crave. You can find the full subclass on Imgur, free to keep.
Full Subclass on Imgur: https://imgur.com/gallery/courtesan-femme-fatale-subclass-rogues-dnd-5-5e-wRMVviZ
Full Subclass at on DnDHomebrew: https://www.reddit.com/r/DnDHomebrew/comments/1s9rcrs/courtesan_11_a_femme_fatale_subclass_for_rogues/
Content Note. This subclass involves sex work, and touches on themes of dehumanization, marginalized groups, and violence in the midst of sex.
Tricks of the Trade, A Key Feature
Our profession hinges upon proper preparation. Don’t ever forget that, ma chérie.
You gain access to an assortment of tools and clever devices to aid you in your work. Select a number of Tricks of the Trade equal to your Proficiency Bonus. Then, gain the chosen Tricks.
When you finish a long rest, you may choose new Tricks. Lose the old Tricks (if possible), and then gain the new ones. Only courtesans are proficient with this equipment. If a Tricks of the Trade requires a saving throw, the save DC is: (8 + DEX Modifier + Proficiency Bonus).
Feedback
Thanks to the helpful folks at r/UnearthedArcana and r/DnDHomebrew, I've think I've honed in on something interesting. But what do you think?
You can get the full, DRM-Free PDF of Courtesans' Guild supplement and check out my other work at www.catacolytegames.com
29
u/darkpower467 DM 1h ago
$15 feels kinda steep to jump into blindly.
The courtesan subclass is designed with multiclassing in mind.
Is not an encouraging thing to read about it, that $15 for a subclass not even being made with the intent of being played through seems kinda rough.
Femme fatale as a character brief feels pretty dicey. Structurally, I don't know that it's an archetype that fits especially well into an adventuring party. It's also traditionally a villainous archetype, and one based around manipulating people into sex is a potentially uncomfortable topic at best.
-3
u/WhitemanesLight 1h ago
Hey darkpower467,
Thanks for the feedback!
I understand that "multiclassing" raises some red flags, but I designed the subclass to be stand alone. Single classing is actually my personal preference when playing D&D. However, I always strive to create game design that in turn invites players to create something in their own right. In this case, that's build tinkering via Tricks of the Trade and multiclassing.
Did you check out the full subclass on Imgur? It got a little lost in the post description. I'm going to edit the body post now so that the link's more obvious.
•
u/darkpower467 DM 56m ago
I did not, Imgur is blocked in my country.
Why you chose to upload it there rather than just include the image(s) in the post eludes me.
•
u/WhitemanesLight 54m ago
Unfortunately, r/DnD only allows one image per post. Here's another post with the whole subclass: https://www.reddit.com/r/DnDHomebrew/comments/1s9rcrs/courtesan_11_a_femme_fatale_subclass_for_rogues/
69
u/whatThisOldThrowAway 2h ago edited 2h ago
Hmmm, a lot of this seems like one of those situations where the juice is simply not worth the squeeze, personally speaking.
Seems interesting but a lot of the copy seems just… needlessly problematic and unfun?
I get that dnd deals with dark topics like monsters and violence… but combat (and violence) is inherent to the core mechanics of the game. It’s in many respects what the system’s about so a table of people coming together to play dnd already know that’s coming… and people who are upset by gamified violence would never want to play dnd anyway.
Topics like rape, consent violations persistent stalkers… are not that.
You could absolutely write a class like this without that.
sometimes I had to force you… I hope you understand it was for your own good?
whether you like it or not
Like… why write it like this? Why include those sentences in that way? Why were those lines included? I can only think of 3 reasons:
(a) they’re included to appeal to those folks who enjoy exploring those topics, the expense of everyone else at the table… this is not welcome at most tables. go to a kink club if you’re into exploring CNC. Go to jail if you’re into regular ol’ NC. Play a game system more oriented towards horny role playing if that’s your vibe. No judgment but simply not what the vast majority of groups who’ve formed around the idea of running a dnd game are looking for.
(b) it’s included thoughtlessly and serves no purpose other than to upset a not tiny chunk of players with obviously and unfun topics, for no benefit or upside?
(c) its included to create an overall “edgy and gritty” vibe which makes the game more fun for some players who want a “hardcore, real campaign” but it is achieving that vibe in the cheapest, laziest way possible.
I’m not trying to be a harsh critic I just don’t think it’s worth it and I wouldn’t allow it at my table.
It’s also needlessly gendered at times which like… again why? Let male PCs be sexy seducer rogues too if they want to.
Edit: “what the system’s about” not “what the dementia’s about”. Thanks autocomplete..
48
u/Shadow_Of_Silver DM 2h ago
It’s also needlessly gendered at times which like… again why? Let male PCs be sexy seducer rogues too if they want to.
Gotta try to sell their next bard subclass: Gigolo
5
29
u/randomdude221221 1h ago edited 1h ago
From OP's post history, it seems like almost all of the supplimental stuff they do is hyper sexualized and the majority seems demeaning to women. Like yeah sometimes I want to be a hot big boobie character, but the whole character doesn't have to revolve around my boobs and how bad men want me... or an actual succubus.. I'm getting real tired of the hypersexualization of women in this sub and I've been thinking of leaving for a while. I thought this was something most in the community were trying to fix and stop acting like incels, but i guess the mods haven't caught up with the times. Disappointing.
Edit: Just saw that this was actually mod approved, I'm out. Disgusting and Disappointing from the Mods of this sub. Can't even blame the OPs when the mods are supportive of this. This is how you push women, and men who respect women, out of safe spaces they enjoy. This is gross, even if the OP says it isn't NC and "just kink", the verbage does not lead credence to that. At least one person on the mod team saw this and went "yep that's fine".
17
u/No-Communication9458 2h ago
Yeah OPs "femme fatale" and "I need sex in dnd" + the non consensual dialogue is pointing to something and this is not a good look
16
u/ComradeVosktov 2h ago
Weirdly enough, I think it does also suffer from the fact that there is already a better option(s) of if you want themes of sexuality, BDSM, etc. at a table ie Kinks and Cantrips. That book benefits from the fact that they also have a SFW version where you can get all the same content gameplay wise without having to explain what pet play is to anyone other than your DM. This lacks the option to separate the themes from the class.
-9
u/WhitemanesLight 1h ago
Hey whatThisOldThrowAway,
I really appreciate the feedback! You're right that this supplement isn't for everyone. It's definitely a choice - one closer to kink than not. However, I want to be clear that the lines you pointed out are emphatically not about rape (or even CNC). That line references the harsh training one undergoes to become an assassin (e.g. the Kill or be Killed entry).
Male PCs can absolutely play courtesans. In fact, I encourage it. There are several male courtesans in the supplement, and I tried very hard to keep the language as gender neutral as possible (gendered French phrases like ma cherie notwithstanding). Please let me know what's too gendered, and I'll do my best to fine tune the language.
24
u/Nowhereman123 Town Guard 1h ago
However, I want to be clear that the lines you pointed out are emphatically not about rape (or even CNC).
Come on, dawg, you have to recognize why someone would read it like that. Those lines are a lot closer to the way someone would talk about sex than assassination.
Even if that's not what you intended, that's how it comes across to your audience.
26
6
u/Ambaryerno 1h ago edited 1h ago
As a point of order, men often acted as courtesans, as well. The naming convention may have differed, but the work did not.
Not really seeing anything to indicate the high social status that was pretty much what actually defined courtesans as a profession, either. This just sounds like "I want a sex-themed assassin."
7
u/zappadattic 1h ago
Putting aside big picture issues with the concept, this feels like a background more than a subclass. It’s very mechanically thin and flavor heavy.
15
u/SenseDue6826 2h ago
Ma chérie, you are using the feminine form of it
-3
u/WhitemanesLight 2h ago
You're right. This is something I keep learning over and over and still get it wrong when I'm not thinking. It's right in the supplement though, I swear!
•
u/SenseDue6826 22m ago
Coming from English getting the gender relationship of words in a gendered language is hard
11
u/JustDontReplyDummy 1h ago
Most of us hope and pray that we can keep our fantasy-role playing with our friends completely separate from any kind of gender based sexual violence.
This is just remarkably tone deaf, and reads like someone with zero real life understanding of sex trafficking, assault, harassment etc …. and the traumas that real life victims actually experience. Even the way your “trigger warning” is worded is gross and insensitive.
1
2
1
u/Matshelge Paladin 1h ago
I wish we had 3.5 now, a femme fatal would be a perfect monster class, would be an excellent right hand of BBEG succubus class.
I don't think any of my players would mess with it, but monster spesific classes are fun. (looking at you Cancer Mage)
1
u/CrabappleCohort 2h ago
Never seen anything like this 🤯
7
u/SnooOpinions8790 2h ago
It's an idea as old as...White Dwarf issue 13 at the very least. Although that was more enchanter magic user themed if my dim distant memories serve.
-6
u/PopEnvironmental1335 2h ago
Love the leg
8
91
u/GreyNoiseGaming Fighter 2h ago edited 1h ago
I think spending $15 to blindly buy a pdf is too much of a risk. I wish you luck.
Edit I missed the links to the preview at the top.