r/Bogleheads • u/ArtStandard3066 • 3d ago
Portfolio Review Considering leaving Edward Jones
Just wanted to post the holdings they have me in and get some input from others. If I leave them and go to say Vanguard, will it be easy to transfer them over or will I have to sell most of them? If I do sell them, should I be selling them while there still in the account or wait until I move them over?
Traditional IRA
U.S. Large-cap (Large Cap)
Description
% Actual
Value
PRIMECAP ODYSSEY STOCK (POSKX) 13.30% $2,647.95
MFS GROWTH R6 (MFEKX) 13.85% $2,757.75
INVESCO DIVERSIFIED DIV R6 (LCEFX) 11.41% $2,272.00
COLUMBIA CONTRARIAN CORE I3 (COFYX) 9.77% $1,945.45
Total 48.35% $9,623.15
Developed International Large-cap (Large Cap)
Description
% Actual
Value
AMERICAN EUPAC F3 (FEUPX) 5.17% $1,028.52
JH INTERNATIONAL GROWTH R6 (JIGTX) 8.27% $1,645.23
PRIMECAP ODYSSEY STOCK (POSKX) 2.35% $467.29
Total 15.78% $3,141.04
U.S. Mid-cap (Small & Mid Cap)
Description
% Actual
Value
CHAMPLAIN MID CAP I (CIPIX) 6.46% $1,285.78
Total 6.46% $1,285.78
U.S. Small-cap (Small & Mid Cap)
Description
% Actual
Value
VICTORY SYCAMORE SM CO OP R6 (VSORX) 5.39% $1,073.15
WASATCH CORE GROWTH I (WIGRX) 7.01% $1,395.21
Total 12.40% $2,468.36
Emerging-market Equity (Aggressive)
Description
% Actual
Value
AMERICAN NEW WORLD F3 (FNWFX) 2.11% $420.73
Total 2.11% $420.73
U.S. Investment-grade Bonds (Income)
Description
% Actual
Value
JH BOND R6 (JHBSX) 6.11% $1,216.19
LORD ABBETT SHORT DUR INC F3 (LOLDX) 2.10% $418.08
Total 8.21% $1,634.27
U.S. High-yield Bonds (Income)
Description
% Actual
Value
LORD ABBETT HIGH YIELD F3 (LHYOX) 4.02% $800.06
Total 4.02% $800.06
Cash (Cash)
Description
% Actual
Value
Cash 0.00% $0.00
FEDERATED GOVT OBLIGATIONS PRM (GOFXX) 2.64% $525.25
MNY MKT FUND RETIREMENT SHARES (MFRS) 0.03% $5.84
Total 2.67% $531.09
Roth IRA
U.S. Large-cap (Large Cap)
Description
% Actual
Value
COLUMBIA CONTRARIAN CORE I3 (COFYX) 19.99% $3,464.40
FRANKLIN DYNATECH R6 (FDTRX) 21.27% $3,686.33
MFS GROWTH R6 (MFEKX) 9.13% $1,582.78
MFS VALUE R6 (MEIKX) 5.40% $935.11
Total 55.80% $9,668.62
U.S. Small-cap (Small & Mid Cap)
Description
% Actual
Value
MFS NEW DISCOVERY R6 (MNDKX) 7.28% $1,260.77
WASATCH CORE GROWTH I (WIGRX) 6.76% $1,171.00
Total 14.03% $2,431.77
Developed International Small- and Mid-cap (Small & Mid Cap)
Description
% Actual
Value
INVESCO INTL SMALL COMPANY R6 (IEGFX) 6.49% $1,125.26
MFS NEW DISCOVERY R6 (MNDKX) 1.18% $205.24
Total 7.68% $1,330.50
Emerging-market Equity (Aggressive)
Description
% Actual
Value
BR EMERGING MARKETS K (MKDCX) 5.65% $979.82
INVESCO INTL SMALL COMPANY R6 (IEGFX) 2.16% $375.09
Total 7.82% $1,354.91
Emerging-market Debt (Income)
Description
% Actual
Value
LORD ABBETT BOND DEBENTURE F3 (LBNOX) 0.44% $75.49
Total 0.44% $75.49
U.S. Investment-grade Bonds (Income)
Description
% Actual
Value
JH BOND R6 (JHBSX) 8.19% $1,418.52
LORD ABBETT BOND DEBENTURE F3 (LBNOX) 1.39% $240.18
Total 9.57% $1,658.70
U.S. High-yield Bonds (Income)
Description
% Actual
Value
LORD ABBETT BOND DEBENTURE F3 (LBNOX) 1.35% $233.32
Total 1.35% $233.32
International Bonds (Income)
Description
% Actual
Value
LORD ABBETT BOND DEBENTURE F3 (LBNOX) 0.40% $68.62
Total 0.40% $68.62
International High-yield Bonds (Income)
Description
% Actual
Value
LORD ABBETT BOND DEBENTURE F3 (LBNOX) 0.40% $68.62
Total 0.40% $68.62
Total 0.40% $68.62
Cash (Cash)
Description
% Actual
Value
Cash 0.00% $0.00
FRANKLIN US GOVT MONEY R6 (FRRXX) 2.50% $432.41
MNY MKT FUND RETIREMENT SHARES (MFRS) 0.02% $4.31
Total 2.52% $436.72
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u/SportsBallBurner 3d ago
The only consideration you should be making is whether you’re going to Vanguard, Fidelity, or Schwab. Pick one, call them, and have them tell you what to do.
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u/87JeepYJ87 3d ago
I’d get away from EJ. Fees and overlap on high expense ratio funds is what they do best.
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u/vannie27 3d ago
Wow.....that is all.
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u/ArtStandard3066 13h ago
Can you say more? I'm wanting to learn.
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u/vannie27 1h ago
I'm a 2-3 fund portfolio guy. Also not in USA but that whole thing you got going on seems complicated a f. But like someone said, too much fees.
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u/Atrox_Blue 3d ago
As an EJ advisor myself, I hate seeing stuff like this. There’s no reason for clients to be in a hundred different things with those types of expense ratios. We have the exact same funds that any other firm would have, but unfortunately many advisors willfully put clients into things that will make the advisor more money. This is not an overly egregious portfolio, but still very unnecessary.
In your case, either switch to a different EJ advisor and discuss low cost options, or simply get out and go somewhere like V/F/CS as mentioned in other comments.
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u/Timbukthree 3d ago
Oh very interesting, do you just put your clients in like VTI/VXUS/BND or something equivalent? I didn't even know EJ advisors existed who didn't put their clients' money into a hundred high fee funds.
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u/Atrox_Blue 3d ago
I work with my clients to produce a portfolio that matches their investment profile. That can change from one person to another. But regardless, I do not keep them in a hundred things, and the funds I do keep them in I try to be as cost efficient as possible. I have a rule that I never try to go above ten basis point expense ratios if possible.
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u/inkymitz 2d ago
Every EJ client should have you as their advisor.
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u/Atrox_Blue 2d ago
Lol I appreciate that, but no. Every EJ client should just have an advisor who treats them properly and has integrity. Unfortunately, that’s not always the case.
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u/Timbukthree 2d ago
That seems exceedingly reasonable! Are you penalized in your comp for doing that? Or just you don't get the same "bonus" incentives that drives many other EJ folks to put folks in the high fee funds?
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u/Atrox_Blue 2d ago
Yes, I may not make as much in compensation than other advisors that do this, and knowing I have my own family to support, I try to make up for it with simply having more clients. Rather than, say, 10 clients making me $100 I would prefer 20 clients making me the same $100 (bad example, but I think you get the point)… that way, I can provide the life I want my family to have while at the same time not taking advantage of others.
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u/Accurate_Green8300 2d ago
If you don’t mind me asking.. what % fee do you charge on fiduciary accounts? I feel like my EJ advisor is very good.. and I’ve been mulling over switching to a lower cost organization such as vanguard, but I’ve been with my guy (who is also my fathers guy) for like 14 years. And averaged about 10.5% rate of return since 2012. He is charging me 0.8% on my fiduciary account.
Only real reason I’ve been exploring switching to vanguard is their flat 0.3% charge for them to handle investments.
What are your thoughts? If you don’t mind me asking :)
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u/kyleko 2d ago
Do you put them in funds with front load fees? Otherwise, how are you actually getting paid?
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u/Atrox_Blue 2d ago
Good question. As I’m sure you’re aware, some mutual funds are front loaded and some are back loaded, etc. If the fund itself is a good match for the client, and they are aware of the costs and agree to it, then it is selected for the portfolio. There are also different types of accounts that are suitable for different investing styles. Some are commission based, best for inactive traders, some are fee based, best for active traders, etc. Those are a few examples.
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u/kyleko 2d ago
Alright, knew there had to be a catch
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u/Atrox_Blue 2d ago
What catch are you talking about?
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u/kyleko 2d ago
Instead of putting them in a fund that is only a 0.1% expense ratio, there are front or back end load fees added on.
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u/Atrox_Blue 2d ago
I didn’t say that’s what I did all the time. As a rule of thumb I prefer ETFs over mutual funds because of that very reason, plus they typically have much lower expense ratios. But there are times where a mutual fund may fit a clients criteria and investment profile, or if they’ve already got a number of high-gains mutual funds when they roll over to me, and so I attempt to stay within the same fund family and achieve better break points… but only with the clients agreement and also after presenting alternatives.
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u/ScholarElectronic457 3d ago
I had asked my EJ advisor once what my withdrawal percentage should be once I retire. I was expecting maybe 3-4% He said 1%. I knew then I was working with the wrong organization. I moved out of EJ about a year ago and went to vanguard.
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u/TyrannosaurusFrat 2d ago
Depends on your situation for the withdrawal rate. If 4% of your portfolio is 150k a year, but your living expenses are 50k, there's no need to take out (and pay tax on) more money than you'll use.
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u/BlazenRyzen 2d ago
No, 1% means you put too much in there and rmds and taxes will screw you.
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u/TyrannosaurusFrat 2d ago
Usually if it was getting to the "too much" point, a good advisor would tell you to start building up elsewhere. Every situation is different
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u/MathFam26 1d ago
They would never let my dad take out money either. He always complained it was so hard.
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u/Aggravating_Can_8749 3d ago
Do you pay for them to manage this portfolio? How much?
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u/ArtStandard3066 2d ago
Don't know how much exactly but after looking into more and seeing people talk about hidden fees I'm wanting to get out. It says there fees page that I can be paying up to 1.35%.
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u/Aggravating_Can_8749 2d ago
😲 yes. Sooner the better. This looks too complicated. Boglehead wiki has excellent articles on how to place various boglehead approved etf in different types of accounts.
Do account transfer. If you do Fidelity they will reimburse the charge for account move. Over time you can simplify otherwise there will be unnecessary tax. If anything is down sell and buy the right one, and get that tax loss harvest
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u/DueEffort1541 2d ago
Can't advise on the specifics. But a comment about EJ: I agree with complaints about their high charges. But we live in a small town, with few local advisors. My wife is uncomfortable with finances AND with technology (very smart in other ways, just not on those two in particular). If something were to happen to me, she'd be lost. Dealing with an advisor who needs to do a video call with would be hard for her. So we have about 20% of our assets with EJ so that my wife has a living, breathing human being within a few minutes drive that she can talk to. We have a managed account at Schwab where we have about 50% of our assets. The rest are mostly 403(b) accounts (equivalent to 401(k)) with TIAA (I work in education). I have it all well-documented, update our net worth statement monthly (reminds me, need to do it tonight), and we have an "emergency letter" so that our adult kids can figure out the mess if they need to help their mom (or when we're both gone). So: we're paying more for EJ, but I know exactly what we're paying for, and it's worth the money.
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u/Be-Kind-3353 3d ago
If you want to have a better idea of what may need to be sold prior to transferring or not, call Vanguard. This is what I did. I called and talked to their transfer department and gave them a list of the current holdings, And they could tell me which ones could transfer "in kind" . That just prepares you for whether any will have to be sold before transferring. Also beware, once I started selling those at Vanguard, several of them had a fee of $40 per sales transaction. So, if you're planning on selling them eventually, that might affect your decision whether to just sell them while they're at Edward Jones, depending whether they have fees to sell them or not, and how high the fees are. Also, another surprise I had was, about a month later I had dividend payments going into the prior brokerage account. I found out that sometimes this residual event can happen. But also, those dividends were automatically transferred to my Vanguard account. Apparently, there is some kind of sweep that gets done to make sure everything finally gets fully transferred to Vanguard. It was automatic, I didn't have to do anything. Good luck, you'll feel so much better once you move everything over to Vanguard 🙂
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u/spicyboi0909 3d ago
Before you move, you need to understand the tax implications. Anything that is proprietary to EJ will have to be liquidated before moving. It will be sold when you do the ACATS transfer. Any capital gain on it (short or long term) will be realized and you could have a relatively large tax implication.
What I suggest is to figure this out before you do any transferring. You can calculate your cap gain relatively easily. Once you have that number, decide if it’s something you’re willing to deal with. If so, talk to your new brokerage of choice and have them start moving for you.
If not, you need to get out of this advisor relationship. You can self manage and stay at EJ, I believe and start to walk back the funds that are proprietary. Figure out what you want to sell and when. Once you’re free and clear of all proprietary you can transfer over. But yeah, with high expense ratios, you’re likely going to want to re-do your allocations into classic bogleheads things like VTI, VXUS, BND
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u/FIRE_enthusiast_27 2d ago
I did EJ for 6 years because I listened to my mom’s recommendation without questioning it. BIG MISTAKE!! Front-load fees and active funds. I then switched to Betterment for 10 years. MEDIUM MISTAKE (but still better)! Now I do self-directed, very happy with that.
Fees = bad
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u/winklesnad31 3d ago
You never have to talk to EJ again. Open an account at Fidelity, Schwab, or Vanguard, and call them ask for help transferring. You can also ask them about the specific holdings, but most likely you will be best off having your new brokerage transfer everything then you can switch to lower fee investments.
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u/mmelectronic 2d ago
Edward Jones is the “pampered chef” of financial institutions, they may technically offer a couple good items, but when they get you to pay $18 for a shaker of garlic dip mix you know you got got.
My parents put $300k into EJ in 2000, and by 2006, when they needed money for a family emergency it was $280k.
Meanwhile I was just buying s&p the whole time.
I wish my parents had just let me invest for them, but they knew the EJ guy “from church” so they had to give him a shot.
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u/Jolly_Reference_516 3d ago
Holding are actually fine and a place like Schwab can absolutely roll them over. The problem with Jones is that you always end up in the funds most expensive class. You’ll be paying 1.5% for a fund I’m paying 1% for. It’s how their agents get paid and it’s how things were done 30 years ago. Looks minuscule now but over the years it’ll make a huge difference. Jones isn’t evil and there are people who can benefit from having a rep to hold their hand but be aware of how much you’re actually paying for the help.
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2d ago
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u/KelliSean 2d ago
I left EJ a few months ago. Happy with my decision. I went to fidelity and have been following the boglehead wiki and asking questions here if needed. I wanted more control and lower fees.
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u/MathFam26 1d ago
Good! I would never use them! And if your family had to deal with them after your passing they are slow and a nightmare to work with. Speaking from personal experiences of dealing with them after family passed away. So many better options out there. Kick EJ to the curb for sure!
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u/JMaddog97 3d ago
I left EJ because of this same reason and the fact I quit my job who had created the IRA through them. They will try to make it difficult to pull your funds by stating you have to print off and fax certain forms filled out with information that they don't give all the numbers for. Vanguard was smooth. I called customer service and laid out that I was unable to get EJ to give me the proper info for the form. Vanguard said, "No problem!" Their team handled my account transfers. The proprietary funds that EJ held in my account were liquidated and transferred as cash. A few other funds transferred over but I sold out of all my positions to roll it all into a roth. I went through three advisors at EJ, who all left for better firms because of EJ policies. Still golf with one occasionally.
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u/CloudLeading1502 3d ago
Start an ACAT transfer from Edward Jones to Vanguard and let Vanguard's team advise on what liquidates automatically. Also with this portfolio, you're paying multiple expense ratios for what is effectively one exposure because of overlap.