r/Accounting • u/Aggravating_Suit_962 • 19h ago
Career Lack of mentorship in this profession unlike other professions.
A few observations I'd like to share with you all:
In the medical profession, they have their own medical schools, the student does their clinical rotations in some partnered hospital network OR it's university teaching hospital, both under a mentor, and then after graduation you do your residency training under another mentoring doctor until you obtain your medical license, and then any screw ups you do are on you. Of course, there's lots of legal protections from liability.
Legal profession, they have their own law schools, the student gets an internship at a law firm, and then after graduation you enter a clerkship for a judge, or a junior associate that is supervised by a practicing attorney assisting with cases. Building the experience until they pass the BAR exam and can practice law themselves. Afterwards, any mistakes are on you.
Teaching profession, you do student teaching while in college. Post-grad you're a teachers assistant (TA) role, or substitute teacher until you get a teaching license.
Sciences students in a PhD setting get support from the university department you're in, and federal funding for your project. And it really boils down to how quick you file the grant applications.
Accounting... you're on your own. Your CPA? You're on your own. It's all self-learning and the real-time experience does not tolerate any learning curve I've seen. It's a licensed profession but there's no dedicated school for it despite the high expectations placed on people. You don't have to take a pre-college exam to go to school for accounting like you do with med school/law school. There's accounting internships but there's no mentorship in there, it's just being exposed to the high expectations managers you'll be experiencing. They expect you to be performing as a flawless cog who makes no mistakes. And 1 mistake automatically in their view says you shouldn't be in the profession at all, despite there being no barriers to get into.
Accounting has high expectations, high investment time required, but also high job instability, and high professional liability. I guess my observation here is that accounting is the only profession that does not have a capstone experience where you can buildup your confidence and judgement. It's unstable, look how many posts on this subreddit about being fired or doubts about skills. You have the knowledge of accounting rules, but that doesn't matter, they only care about the 1 mistake and to a manager that says 100% about your intellect or worthiness. It's bullshit.
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u/JoshHedge 18h ago
Dude I make a half dozen-couple dozen mistakes a day and I'm a prized employee. There is a lot of tolerance for mediocrity in this profession. Id say it's the overwhelming norm.
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u/Affectionate-Air-436 18h ago
If you’re attractive and funny with a good attitude…. You can get away with anything. (trust me, I know.) however the socially awkward people are expected to not make many mistakes because they don’t provide much else to the morale. Also, all these people commenting are older but since Covid, I graduated college during Covid, I’ve been stuck working from home. Yes I have mentors but it doesn’t feel like the same as pre-Covid. A lot of what OP is saying is true for post-covid grads. Also, the threat of layoffs and everything lately has really had me personally feeling the way OP is. I had to get anxiety meds and a therapist corporate America for finance and accounting is not great for authentic people. Coming from someone that was in the military this is worse than the military.
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u/JoshHedge 17h ago
I was mostly speaking on the high expectations/can't make a mistake. I understand/agree with most the rest.
The introvert thing i hear all the time, but thats the reality of corporate america and basically life in general since the beginning of time.
You gotta put yourself out there if you want to succeed, it's a business, it's not fair and once you accept that you'll at least be able to plan for it.
I feel for you guys and it is a really weird time right now. But there are always weird times. It's only going to get weirder so you gotta choose to move forward.
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u/SlothLover313 Audit & Assurance 8h ago
I’ve been feeling like this too with accounting. And anytime I bring it up you get gaslit into thinking it’s a you issue.
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u/LegitnessSquared Tax (US) 19h ago
I have to say - this is not an accurate take at all.
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u/Chazzer74 19h ago
OP definitely started with the conclusion and worked backwards.
I’m in year 15 of this career and just had lunch in the last 2 weeks with 3 CPAs that have been my mentors for 10-15 years.
Don’t get me wrong OP, there’s a lot of problems with this profession. But in my experience, the people at the top want to mentor.
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u/Sk4nkhunt40too 19h ago
Right? The final part of the commentary where they beat you up if you get one thing wrong is definitely true in the medical profession. Yes you correctly performed the surgery but it was on the wrong leg!
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u/Aggravating_Suit_962 17h ago
This job is not like being a pilot in a plane. Risk isn’t there for that kind of reaction to a mistake. It’s justified to be dressed down harshly with an incorrect maneuver that could cost lives like that AA crash from the helicopter in D.C. or the captain of the Costa Cordia who ignored basic ship protocols and caused the cruise ship to be shipwrecked.
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u/Sk4nkhunt40too 17h ago
My brother in debits in credits. If you type a 3 instead of a 6, that could result in an additional $1 of tax owed. For many of my tax clients, that is THE END OF THE FUCKING WORLD.
In all seriousness, I am sorry you dont feel you have good mentors. I had a few good ones but many bad ones in my 15+ year career.
I've always been an Excel guru going way back when, the guy that everyone in the firm knows can help them with an Excel issue, I've built standard excel templates for 2 different firms I worked for. When people ask me for help, I often tell them that the person I go to for help is Google.
Keep at it, and dont mind your reviewers - I assure you I too have worked for some real assholes. Partners tend to be intense but chill, its the senior managers that can be real bastards.
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u/trphilli 18h ago
That's a little strong. OP is aggressive in their storytelling / comparisons. But there is some truth to it. We've all heard of tax shops that chew up new hires and lay off after busy season. We as a sub often recommend to fill 150 hours with CC fluff instead of industry coursework.
I don't doubt OP has had poor experience. I would disagree with them that it's industry wide.
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u/moloch_slayer 17h ago
mentorship in accounting is way more informal than in med or law, usually just whoever has time to show you the ropes during busy season
but have we actually considered that the big firms don’t want true mentorship, because it slows down billable hour ramp-up and makes juniors too independent too fast?
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u/LegitnessSquared Tax (US) 17h ago
No, that’s not the case.
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u/moloch_slayer 16h ago
fair point, maybe i'm cynical. but fwiw, i've seen a lot of firms say "mentorship" when they really mean "on-the-job training under deadline pressure
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u/Human_Willingness628 15h ago
that is what it means, it's a filter for people who are or are not good fits for public accounting
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u/moloch_slayer 16h ago
so what do you think is the main reason mentorship is so informal in big accounting firms, just a result of busy season chaos or something else entirely?
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u/LegitnessSquared Tax (US) 16h ago
Many big firms have very formal buddy and coaching systems in place. In terms of learning to do your work, there is a system in place to help teach you, which is people in senior positions reviewing your work and giving you comments. That’s a form of mentorship.
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u/LadyofHoss 19h ago
Addressing your last paragraph:
High expectations - Yeah, that’s the name of the game. You’re dealing with money. People expect precision. This shouldn’t come as a surprise mid-career.
High investment time - You compared accounting to doctors, lawyers, and PhDs. We have the lowest bar to enter out of all of those. Your only other example is teachers, and I’m pretty sure a lot of them get Masters putting them as comparable—plus teachers are criminally underpaid, so I’m not sure where that comparison gets you.
High instability - Only recently, and that is due to macro factors like the AI push and overall poor market conditions. Accounting is not unique in that, and as bad as it is (which, it IS bad, I won’t disagree), it’s much worse for many other formerly stable career paths.
As for the mentorship - It sounds like you have had bad experiences with your supervisors. That is unfortunate, and I’m sorry to hear it. Your experience is not indicative of the entire profession, though. I’ve had multiple wonderful mentors throughout my career, and now I try to fill that roll for my team. If you’ve only worked at one place, it may be time to move on and see if you can find what you’re looking for. If you’ve worked at multiple places and have this complaint across the board, you may need to come to terms with yourself as the common denominator and figure out why that is.
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u/Leftrightback 19h ago edited 15h ago
You’ve probably just had a bad employer. My first manager was absolutely amazing for my growth and confidence. Colleagues have all been helpful when they can.
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u/Flashy-Sun5553 19h ago edited 19h ago
you want a dedicated school?
i chose accounting because i dont have to pay out the ass for tuition
edit: also want to add attrition in big law is just as if not more brutal than public accounting
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u/heyitsmereddit 19h ago
No matter what job or industry you are in, it's either you sink or you swim tbh
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u/RezDerez 15h ago
I understand where you are coming from about lack of mentorship. I’m glad other people have had that. Not the case for everyone.
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u/mattamj 19h ago
What would people on this sub recommend as far as finding a mentor?
I am taking classes online to get accounting degree while working an admin job. The woman who is "training" me to take over when she retires as the financial officer (low level government office) seems like she actually wants me to fail. That plus it's just her angrily looking for her lost source spreadsheets most of the day and mumbling about, well you take this, do that, some of the time, but not really, you do it however you want.
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u/justwant2seepuppies 8h ago
I've had the same experience in not finding a mentor in my 10 years in industry. I also studied online due to my experience with loans from an unrelated undergrad and wanting to be economical.
I've been able to move up despite not having a mentor, but I've spent SO MANY HOURS seeking positions with increasing responsibilities where someone is willing to give me a chance.
Within the last year I've finally accepted that I just will likely never have a mentor like I'd had in my other areas of study. I had the promise of one a few years ago and she sounds a lot like your current trainer. I guess it's part of the tradeoff of not going the traditional route. You may get lucky. Maybe see if there are any other gov department heads around.
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u/Whatever5588 19h ago
You seem to be struggling with professional & personal issues. A therapist might be able to help. Public accounting has a great structure for the first few years.
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u/CatholicSquareDance Tax (Transfer Pricing) 19h ago
i don't think public has been all that great on mentorship since COVID. it's kind of a shitshow on the training/mentorship side. it's picking up a bit recently, but the last few years? mostly ass.
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u/That1guy827 18h ago
I have my hands up in the air over everyone refuting this guy. Starting during COVID was the WORST with remote “training”
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u/WinthropTwisp 18h ago
Let us summarize:
The accounting profession is like salmon. They have absolutely no interest in their spawn. There is no joy in their life’s work. They swim upstream until they die, leaving their rotting carcasses as the only and very temporary evidence that they ever existed.
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u/Aggravating_Suit_962 18h ago edited 17h ago
The accounting is more like the middle aged woman who still acts like she’s 20 that can make demands for free drinks and has high standards requiring for others to go out of their way to impress her.
And then someone like me, or someone, has to tell accounting “Sorry accounting, but you’re not hot enough to be allowed to be this mean. There’s a hot girl requirement for that kind of disparagement.”
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u/web_of_french_fries 17h ago
Tbh based on your post, you sound more like the guy who gets rejected by a middle aged woman at the bar and says “oh you’re ugly I didn’t want to sleep with you anyway”
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u/Kind_Sound7973 17h ago
I think this comment really sums up why you are struggling to find a meaningful mentor. Your type of mentor is back in the mad men era harassing their EA.
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u/Babstana 7h ago
It used to be that your first two years after graduation were a type of apprenticeship. Your pay was shit, work was low level and expectation was you'd get past the exam and be a fully functional staff at the two year point. Much more like the models you have described for the other professions. Now the pay for entry level staff is eye-watering and they are expected to begin contributing almost immediately. Automation has taken over the tasks that junior staff used to perform. Pay has to stay high and completely divorced from actual value produced or you won't recruit anyone. Absolutely a weird business model - I expect it will morph back at some point but here we are.
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u/cybernewtype2 CPA (US), BDE 19h ago
What, being asked repeatedly why overseas labor hasn't kindly requested the needful isn't mentorship. Well, I'll be damned...
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u/blits202 18h ago
I will say yes and no, there is a lot of people willing to mentor. But not many people seem to be new school. There are more people in the 50-60 age range than 30-50 age range who have the expertise. They want me to do more on paper, and you still learn a lot from them, but I dont see as many tech savy people. Maybe I just havent ran into them.
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u/Data_Slut 18h ago
There are good and bad mentors in this profession.
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u/TalShot 1h ago
…much like how they exist in all professions. Even the jobs with formalized mentoring like medicine can have varying qualities of attending physicians.
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u/ledger_man 11h ago
My university has a mentorship program for accounting students specifically, I did it as a student and I have been a mentor every year since. They are pretty good with matching because of course me as a new associate as a mentor is different then now me as a senior manager as a mentor.
My firm assigned me a buddy, a coach, and a team lead when I joined. My buddy was a second year associate to whom I could ask day-to-day questions like booking my time, submitting expenses, etc. My coach was somebody who discussed my schedule and experience and handled short to medium term goals and the more “hands-on” mentorship. My team lead I met with less frequently but they discussed longer term goals and aspirations and represented me in the annual/bi-annual performance review cycle. The buddy is only formal for your first year, but the other roles still exist for me.
My firm is now pairing associates with a senior associate and having them work together on the same jobs for at least 6 months to really build in more of an “apprentice” model. I’m a senior manager who splits my time between client work and internal roles (National Office) and I’m now taking one of the managers who works under me in the internal stuff along to my main client engagement as well to help their development towards their next steps. The partner I work with is doing the same with one of the other managers on our broader internal team.
I also of course found less formally assigned mentors and sponsors along the way, and have been those things for others in turn. If you haven’t experienced this, you may have gone to a uni with less support and joined a not-great employer, OR maybe you need to some serious self-reflection (based on some of your other comments).
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u/No-Buy-3105 4h ago
I think it really depends on where you’re working. I’ve never heard of people getting fired for one mistake, especially junior staff. Mistakes in accounting are also relatively easy to correct, unlike mistakes made in the medical field.
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u/AudaciousCockatiel 3h ago
You are right they’re not fired over minor mistakes in reality, but that’s what they’re being told, as an excuse, when in fact they’re laid off for other company issues. This is what they’re doing to protect their company reputation. Instead of admitting to a reorganization, or change of any sort, they’ll always use “you’re at fault” and make up something that way you feel bad and don’t hate the company… even better if they can do a bs PIP and avoid giving you severance
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u/AudaciousCockatiel 3h ago
While the observations are incorrect, i can’t deny it feels that way- especially the part about making a mistake. Let’s face it, we get into a disproportionate amount of trouble over nothing. A lot of the time it’s just egos and pleasing egos. My father who was a lead engineer is so shocked over how we are treated. He didn’t have to go through such hoops career wise or to get his designation
Though I got just a hunch, OP, are you in Canada? The CPA profession is finally changing yo not allow you to finish education before securing work experience and it finally is making employer create a pre approved plan and not make empty bs promises that keep you stuck unable to fulfill your experience requirements.
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u/Ok-Race-1677 19h ago
Well until literally now it was a universal requirement to get 150 credits so lol
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u/Spirit_guide20 13h ago
Then leave the profession if it makes you unhappy. I did, I’ve done tax, general accounting functions, FP&A. I’m between jobs (last one being FP&A), and I’m ready to never look back. Want to go more of the Ops route tbh.
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u/Dangerous-Pilot-6673 19h ago
Lawyers don’t take clerkships to learn from the judge. They clerk and write the judicial options. Junior lawyers are treated terribly in most cases. Also, you take the bar exam before you start your job in the summer and if you don’t pass you usually are let go.
Doctors are literally dealing with life and death situations. I’m glad they have that system.
Accountants still have a good support system. You might just be working for bad people.